Oops! SIG P320 Again

[Dagobert II]

Did someone get a bribe to do such a lousy job or was it just government work as usual?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGxDIG514g

[sojourner truth]

Ooooohhh.. Don't scare everyone with these assault type weapons of mass destruction. We may have to cut school on Monday because we are protesting.

[fchafey]

The Army has already fielded the Sig. In fact by the time we get back FT Hood should be almost Sig pure...except for special people that get the Glocks.

[Dagobert II]

The Army has already fielded the Sig. In fact by the time we get back FT Hood should be almost Sig pure...except for special people that get the Glocks. When I was in there were lots of special people, often named Abrams. Who are the special people now days?

[mac]

When I was in there were lots of special people, often named Abrams. Who are the special people now days?

spooks, snake eaters and the like....mac

[fchafey]

When deployed you can tell the level of cool.....Gi's Berettas. Sigs for the SF people, and deservedly so, they do have the coolest rifles, those things just say "hello, your dead courtesy of Uncle Sam"...and the other 3 letter agencies with their Glocks.

[ExKilleencitizen]

I'm a Sig guy...don't have much use for Glocks. Have my P226 .40 and a P239 9mm for concealed carry and love em both.

[Dagobert II]

I'm a Sig guy...don't have much use for Glocks. Have my P226 .40 and a P239 9mm for concealed carry and love em both. The SIGs with which I've made personal acquaintance have all been fine instruments (still prefer my Glock). All the trouble I've read about seems to revolve around the P320. Does anybody here have experience with that model?

[Ludwig]

This video came out in July... I assume 2017. It is history rather than current events. I would be interested in knowing what Glock has decided to do about this issue. Is there any current data on it?

[Dagobert II]

This is dated 30 January 2018.

The results of a series of tests of the M17 and M18 platforms were revealed in an annual report compiled by the Pentagon’s Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation, alongside similar testing on a variety of platforms throughout fiscal year 2017. According to the report, the Sig Saur Modular Handgun Systems (MHS) exhibited a number of issues throughout testing that took place between April and September of last year. Primary among them, the aforementioned drop test issue that made headlines late last year. If dropped from the correct angle (onto the dovetail of the pistol) the M17 and M18 platforms are prone to discharging a round.

Perhaps more disconcerting, however, were the other issues the Pentagon’s testing exposed: in two instances, the trigger assemblies in pistols splintered apart during use – an issue that had never come up before Sig implemented changes to the trigger to resolve the drop-test failure. This means the new components intended to solve one problem may have inadvertently caused another.


The report also went on to indicate that the pistol has a propensity for ejecting live rounds alongside spent shells, though it clarifies that this does not usually result in a misfeed or malfunction. Nonetheless, ejecting live rounds could be a concern in combat zones, where every round may count in some survival situations. According to the tests, the issue becomes more prominent the more often the pistol is fired.


That isn’t the end of the MHS’ ammunition woes. While the pistol apparently has no issue cycling the Army’s new XM1153 “special purpose” cartridge, a hollow point round, it apparently does not function reliably when loaded with the standard XM1152 “ball” rounds used most often in service. In order to qualify as a military service weapon, the pistol must be able to fire 2,000 rounds without stoppages at least 95% of the time – a standard both the M17 and M18 pistols were able to meet with hollow points, but with standard ammo, that reliability rate dropped to a dismal 75% in the full size platform, and an even worse 60% on the compact one.


It is unclear what steps the Army has taken to resolve these issues, but the report does indicate that the Army is working with Sig to address them. In the mean time, the pistol platform began distribution to Army units last November, meaning those pistols will either suffer these reliability issues, or will have to be repaired in the near future.

Source: https://sofrep.com/98976/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/

[Ludwig]

To date, not all units at Fort Hood have received new P320. The soldiers I have talked with are not very enthused about getting them either.

[mac]

To date, not all units at Fort Hood have received new P320. The soldiers I have talked with are not very enthused about getting them either.

i kind of doubt if that many soldiers are ever issued one......mac

[kantwin]

I wonder if the XM1152 ball round cartridges are a bit light on powder, causing some failures.
At my LGS that has an indoor range, they sell reloads, and one box a friend was shooting had many failures, due to being a bit light on the powder.

[ithoughtso]

I want to take a look at the glock19X. Has anyone seen one locally yet?

[rk103]

PX had one a week ago.

[Mestral]

I wonder if the XM1152 ball round cartridges are a bit light on powder, causing some failures.
At my LGS that has an indoor range, they sell reloads, and one box a friend was shooting had many failures, due to being a bit light on the powder.
If you find specs (bullet weight and velocity) on the XM1152 and XM1153, let me know.
I haven't seen them published yet.

[Dagobert II]

If you find specs (bullet weight and velocity) on the XM1152 and XM1153, let me know.
I haven't seen them published yet. What I've found so far:
XM-1152 = 115 gr. FMC / XM-1153 = 147 JHP Source:
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/winchester-making-the-new-9mm-147-gr-hollowpoint-for-the-military.1684267/print

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYDihaWkS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-vJVVTMKlM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGnlHA_92M

[Mestral]

What I've found so far: Source: ...
I appreciate the effort, but without the velocity I can't predict failure rates or modes.

I can tell you that the WWB ammo will not be a hot load, and on the 115 grain load, failure to feed would be the expected failure, especially if someone "limp wrists" the weapon. I have also seen pictures of the Hollow Point version of the XM ammo, and it appears to be a substantially different design than the common Hollow Points in use today.

[Dagobert II]

Does it look like this?
https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/business/uploads/cartridgecollectors/original/2X/b/b8d3663a51c2466ff9e3d70932e0ec475edc7513.jpg
If so I've read some speculation that they're the standard WWB 147gr hollow point topped with a teflon coated penetrator to facilitate penetration of body armor somewhat like the scary Eagle Talon "cop killer" bullets that got the libs so worked up about a few years ago. Wait until they find out about these though they might be dumb enough to believe that anything in common issue to the military will never come into civilian hands if only they can get Saints Feinstein or Schumer to scribble a law. We all know no cops have been killed since they saved the world from "cop killer" projectiles with their scribbles.

[Mestral]

I haven't seen anything about Teflon coating, but I have seen FMJ-Flat Nosed
bullets (actually, TMJ or metal cased) for "barrier penetration" similar to
the FBI barrier penetration standards: plywood, windshield, etc.

The HP rounds appear to be a copper alloy throughout, rather than jacketed,
and have very deep serrations, similar to the "RIP" rounds that got laughable
promotions a couple years back.

[dagnabitboy]

I have a Sig P320 9 mm compact. First gun! At first I was disappointed with the gun because the recoil spring came apart while I was shooting! And that was my second time shooting! The gun kept firing, but when I went to clean the gun later the spring assembly came flying out in pieces! Sig sent me a new spring pronto, got it in 4 days. Then of course there was the issue of the gun firing when dropped but Sig fixed that in 7 days under recall. That's from the day I sent it in to the day I got it back. The only other problem I had was with jams, but that turned out to be reloads the range was selling. I've been using mostly Federal 115 grain from Wally World, haven't had a problem since. I like the feel of the gun, fits my large size hands well (I'm 6'3") although it's really kind big for concealed carry. Recently I went to the range with a friend and we put 250 rounds through it in 45 minutes. The front part of the slide got pretty danged hot but the P320 kept firing just fine. Got about 1000 rounds total though it now. Overall I'm happy with it!