Transgender teen wins state championship

[onetime]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/27/517491492/17-year-old-transgender-boy-wins-texas-girls-wrestling-championship

Curious what others view is on this topic and the bathrooms. I'd like to think I'm sympathetic to others plights but it's not fair for a girl transitioning to become a boy taking hormones to wrestle other girls. Nor would it be fair for a boy transitioning to become a girl to wrestle girls. Does anyone have a reason why that should be accepted that I'm missing seems to be a fraction on this topic. The other issue is bathrooms, I don't think it'd be good for parents with kids to especially girls to worry about a random man that doesn't identify as being transgender creeping into bathrooms.

[fchafey]

I was waiting for someone to post this. I guess I have an issue with the fact that girls wrestle, play hockey, and fight. JMO. I get equality, but do we really have to be equal every which way? I agree with your thoughts though about transitioning people. We are dealing with that very issue right now. Interesting how people are.

I remember when Dr. Richard Raskind became Renee Richards and sought to compete on the women's tennis circuit. I have to look up the exact tournament, but she won it both as a man and couple years later as a woman after she won the right to play on the women's circuit. Kind of faded away after that, but was able to have the requisite 15 minutes of fame.

[Night Owl]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/27/517491492/17-year-old-transgender-boy-wins-texas-girls-wrestling-championship

Curious what others view is on this topic and the bathrooms. I'd like to think I'm sympathetic to others plights but it's not fair for a girl transitioning to become a boy taking hormones to wrestle other girls. Nor would it be fair for a boy transitioning to become a girl to wrestle girls. Does anyone have a reason why that should be accepted that I'm missing seems to be a fraction on this topic. The other issue is bathrooms, I don't think it'd be good for parents with kids to especially girls to worry about a random man that doesn't identify as being transgender creeping into bathrooms.
Our society is rewarding deviant people for being deviant And the real sad part is a great number of people support them. Wondering...........if someone supports deviant behavior, does that make them deviant also? I know my answer.

[kantwin]

What gets me is that there are people who say we should allow the transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel comfortable.
What about the ones that are uncomfortable BECAUSE the transgenders are using the same bathroom?

A few years go, I recall reading a story (or maybe it was just hypothesizing) about a male that identified as female competing in high school track. The sanctioning body of the sport in that state said this person could compete with the females, and won the state meet in whatever event it was. In my opinion, that was extremely unfair to the female competitors - I imagine there were some scholarships that might have been lost because a female didn't win the state meet since a male competed with the females and won.

[sickofpc]

There is no way that guy/girl should have been allowed to wrestle like he/she did. Of course, the PC, Civil Rights issues were adhered to. What a sad shame and example of how screwed up we have become.

[sojourner truth]

Well, only the transgenedered have rights. The rest of us... Have to shut up and take whatever the left decides is OK, right?

Kind of reminds me of praying before a sporting event. One person doesn't like it and millions have to shut up and be silent.

[Sped1]

From what I read, the student wanted to compete with the boys but Texas law said no. Texas said she had to compete against her actual gender, she couldn't wrestle boys. Maybe in this case the bathroom bill got it wrong.

[kantwin]

The world is about choices.
This individual wanted to wrestle.
This individual wanted to be a boy.
The rules say that this individual could not wrestle as a boy.
This individual knew that.
This individual made a choice that was contrary to the rules.
This individual should not have been allowed to compete as a girl because this individual chose to identify as a boy.
This individual's choice took away other individuals chances because this individual was selfish.
Those other individuals didn't have a choice because of this individual's choices.
And that's just plain wrong.

This individual should have chosen either to be a boy and not wrestle, or to be a girl and wrestle.

[Grammar Rules]

We used to call these girls Tomboys and Jocks.

She wrestled girls. She's genetically a girl,

The rest is just nomenclature.

[onetime]

From what I read, the student wanted to compete with the boys but Texas law said no. Texas said she had to compete against her actual gender, she couldn't wrestle boys. Maybe in this case the bathroom bill got it wrong.
That's tough because you can't have it the other way around, the rule of football doesn't apply in these cases because everyone is provided with an outlet.

[kantwin]

We used to call these girls Tomboys and Jocks.

She wrestled girls. She's genetically a girl,

The rest is just nomenclature.
Genetically a girl.
Let that sink in.
A girl that took testosterone to compete against girls.
Let that sink in also.
A girl that took male hormones in order gain an unfair advantage.
And don't say it was unfair towards this individual.

[Dagobert II]

Suppose the "handicap" were something other than gender identity that could be remedied with what might be a performance enhancing prosthesis, should that person be prevented from competing?
The amputee athlete known as the Blade Runner has won his fight to compete at Beijing's Olympics. Oscar Pistorius had been barred from the games over fears that his carbon fibre limbs gave him an advantage over able-bodied competitors.
Yesterday, however, that ruling was overturned with immediate effect by the Court of Arbitration for Sport.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-566860/Blade-Runner-sprinter-legs-wins-right-compete-Olympics.html#ixzz4ZzlVRam2

[mac]

Suppose the "handicap" were something other than gender identity that could be remedied with what might be a performance enhancing prosthesis, should that person be prevented from competing?

absolutely!

You know, Dago, it's prob'ly just me and prob'ly wrong but there's something very distasteful, inappropriate, almost revolting about letting this creep wrestle with and even pin young nubile girls to the mat......it's just flat out wrong......mac

[mac]

The world is about choices.
This individual wanted to wrestle.
This individual wanted to be a boy.
The rules say that this individual could not wrestle as a boy.
This individual knew that.
This individual made a choice that was contrary to the rules.
This individual should not have been allowed to compete as a girl because this individual chose to identify as a boy.
This individual's choice took away other individuals chances because this individual was selfish.
Those other individuals didn't have a choice because of this individual's choices.
And that's just plain wrong.

This individual should have chosen either to be a boy and not wrestle, or to be a girl and wrestle.

do you have any idea how silly that sounds? a person can't choose to be a boy or a girl. either one can choose to mutilate themselves or even taken certain meds but you are what you are.......chromosomes don't lie.....mac

[mac]

Well, only the transgenedered have rights. The rest of us... Have to shut up and take whatever the left decides is OK, right?

Kind of reminds me of praying before a sporting event. One person doesn't like it and millions have to shut up and be silent.

i heard an interesting take on this the other night at a rotating poker club or group that i play with. he was 'supposing' that it might be unfair for athletes to pray befor an event for help......that it may make the event unfair to the other team, or competitors..... that the event should be man to man, one on one, etc.......no help from performance enhancing drugs, growth hormones or God......mac

[kantwin]

do you have any idea how silly that sounds? a person can't choose to be a boy or a girl. either one can choose to mutilate themselves or even taken certain meds but you are what you are.......chromosomes don't lie.....mac

You know what I mean. This individual chose to identify as a boy. That choice comes with consequences.

[sojourner truth]

i heard an interesting take on this the other night at a rotating poker club or group that i play with. he was 'supposing' that it might be unfair for athletes to pray befor an event for help......that it may make the event unfair to the other team, or competitors..... that the event should be man to man, one on one, etc.......no help from performance enhancing drugs, growth hormones or God......mac

Well, it worked for Gideon... Why not the Rangers or Cowboys.

Seems like they can use all the help they can get.

[Yve]

Students using performance enhancing drugs would have been disqualified. Steroid use is not allowed. If one wants to change their gender they get to bypass the rules everyone else has to follow?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[fchafey]

Students using performance enhancing drugs would have been disqualified. Steroid use is not allowed. If one wants to change their gender they get to bypass the rules everyone else has to follow?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

That is really interesting. A person taking testosterone has got to have a more umph than a person not no? That was the knock on the East German women back in the day, especially their weightlifting teams and swim teams.

[onetime]

absolutely!

You know, Dago, it's prob'ly just me and prob'ly wrong but there's something very distasteful, inappropriate, almost revolting about letting this creep wrestle with and even pin young nubile girls to the mat......it's just flat out wrong......mac Did you read the article? It's a girl versus girl that is transitioning to be a boy. She was born a girl

[onetime]

Students using performance enhancing drugs would have been disqualified. Steroid use is not allowed. If one wants to change their gender they get to bypass the rules everyone else has to follow?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Medically allowed yes

[onetime]

i heard an interesting take on this the other night at a rotating poker club or group that i play with. he was 'supposing' that it might be unfair for athletes to pray befor an event for help......that it may make the event unfair to the other team, or competitors..... that the event should be man to man, one on one, etc.......no help from performance enhancing drugs, growth hormones or God......mac Mac your spitting out misinformation, kids can pray all they want, they just can't be led by the coach in a mandatory or voluntary prayer.

[Grammar Rules]

So this kid should either use the girls' restroom/locker room and wrestle girls or use the boys' restroom/locker room and wrestle boys.

Glad I don't have to make policy. No right answer.

[Dagobert II]

http://www.centextalk.com/vb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dagobert II http://www.centextalk.com/vb/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.centextalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=439894#post439894)
Suppose the "handicap" were something other than gender identity that could be remedied with what might be a performance enhancing prosthesis, should that person be prevented from competing?





absolutely!

You know, Dago, it's prob'ly just me and prob'ly wrong but there's something very distasteful, inappropriate, almost revolting about letting this creep wrestle with and even pin young nubile girls to the mat......it's just flat out wrong......mac So to be consistent, athletes should be prevented from wearing corrective lenses for myopia if that assists them in shooting their target, catching a ball or keeping their car on the track, correct?

[Dagobert II]

Students using performance enhancing drugs would have been disqualified. Steroid use is not allowed. If one wants to change their gender they get to bypass the rules everyone else has to follow?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk My question requires a knowledge of UIL rules and physiology that someone might have so I'll put it out there for anyone that might have that knowledge.

Do UIL rules prohibit the presence of ANY potentially performance enhancing chemical in the body of an athlete even if prescribed by a doctor? Given hormonal levels will vary from individual to individual and from time to time in any given individual, are hormonal levels of UIL athletes tested and is there a range of levels that must be maintained to qualify for competition in a specific gender?

[Night Owl]

Did you read the article? It's a girl versus girl that is transitioning to be a boy. She was born a girl
It's even easier. It's a deviant girl that's taking drugs to become more like a boy (since she can never really become a boy) and those drugs make her stronger vs a girl that knows and wants to be a girl.

[Night Owl]

So this kid should either use the girls' restroom/locker room and wrestle girls or use the boys' restroom/locker room and wrestle boys.

Glad I don't have to make policy. No right answer.
There certainly is a right answer. She is and always will be a girl. You can't change her DNA.

[FieryPrincess]

There really is no easy answer. Here in Alaska, under the shadow of th 9th circuit court, we allow the kids to compete where they identify. We're the state that had a boy who identifies as a girl compete with the girls and win a state title.

[mac]

Mac your spitting out misinformation, kids can pray all they want, they just can't be led by the coach in a mandatory or voluntary prayer.


and......what 'misinformation' did I spit out? Just curious.....mac

[onetime]

and......what 'misinformation' did I spit out? Just curious.....mac

I qouted what you said, I then typed up the statement you made with a correction to it.

[Grammar Rules]

and......what 'misinformation' did I spit out? Just curious.....mac

Mac didn't say kids CAN'T pray.

He quoted his poker buddy who wondered if the kids who got to pray first had "an unfair advantage." I took it as tongue-in-cheek.

[Grammar Rules]

There certainly is a right answer. She is and always will be a girl. You can't change her DNA.

I agree with you. But take a born male who gets breast implants and has his genitals revised, what restroom should this female-appearing person use? I just don't know.

[onetime]

Mac didn't say kids CAN'T pray.

He quoted his poker buddy who wondered if the kids who got to pray first had "an unfair advantage." I took it as tongue-in-cheek. I took it literally whoops.

[Night Owl]

I agree with you. But take a born male who gets breast implants and has his genitals revised, what restroom should this female-appearing person use? I just don't know.
It is simple. Was he born a boy? Yes. Does his DNA say he's a boy? To the boys bathroom he goes. Deviant behavior should not be rewarded.

[Ricky]

I agree with you. But take a born male who gets breast implants and has his genitals revised, what restroom should this female-appearing person use? I just don't know.

John Wayne knows

[Ludwig]

I agree with you. But take a born male who gets breast implants and has his genitals revised, what restroom should this female-appearing person use? I just don't know.Such a modified person entered our criminal justice system. His dna indicated that he was male and he had not yet had his Johnson modified (a sure sign that dna does not lie). The criminal justice system placed him in a male facility I got to meet him at the Ellis Unit in Huntsville. When the guys went to shower, they stripped in the hallway outside the shower doors. All activity stopped as word went out about him going to the showers and all eyes were on his C cups which he proudly displayed. To the best of my knowledge, there are no dna checks outside our public restrooms. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has duck body parts then I have no problem with it going to the ducks bathroom. But if it's a goose wanting to feel like a duck, I'd cook that goose.

[Ricky]

Gives new meaning to the phrase duck ,duck , goose

[Dagobert II]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has duck body parts then I have no problem with it going to the ducks bathroom. But if it's a goose wanting to feel like a duck, I'd cook that goose. Without that DNA test, how would you know if it were a goose wanting to feel like a duck in your public restroom ... unless you are accustomed to restroom behavior I thankfully have not yet encountered?

[mac]

I qouted what you said, I then typed up the statement you made with a correction to it.

well, so much for your credibility. my msg has a dtg of 1008 am and yours is well after noon. why did you find it necessary to.......do what you just now did? (I don't like to use the word)......mac

[Agent X]

Gender identity disorder, now known as gender dysphoria, is a psychological disorder with suicide rates of nearly 40% compared to 4% in our society in general. I have sincere sympathy for people that suffer from this disease but instead of promoting treatment and recovery, the progressive left has sought to normalize this extremely abnormal behavior and use it to antagonize and bait traditional Americans into a debate where any opposition is characterized as bigotry, intolerance and hate.

Gender is a biological phenomenon and not a social construct. Failing to realize this undeniable truth leads to the chaos surrounding boys in the girls bathroom, boys wrestling girls, ridiculous "pronoun preference" on college campuses and the assignment of hero status to the mentally-ill such as Caitlyn Jenner.

The progressive left can only survive with a steady flow of the aggrieved and victimized. As our country has evolved and righted many wrongs of the past, the left has brought forth and will continue to bring forth a never ending parade of victims, each more ridiculous than the last.

[Night Owl]

Mac your spitting out misinformation, kids can pray all they want, they just can't be led by the coach in a mandatory or voluntary prayer.
So they can't pray all they want. You just stated they can't in the very same sentence where you said they can pray all they want. Now who's spitting out misinformation?

[Grammar Rules]

So they can't pray all they want. You just stated they can't in the very same sentence where you said they can pray all they want. Now who's spitting out misinformation?

Hooter, let me give examples. I worked at Ellison. For a time there was a kid they called Preacher. He led a voluntary group of kids in testimonials and prayers in the hall before class most mornings. No problem.

If, on the other hand, one of the teachers had called kids together and said it was time to pray and then led them in his religion's prayers (could be Unitarian, Jewish, Muslim, Baptist), then that becomes coercive or compelling.

There's a difference between voluntary and directed prayer.

Plus any kid can pray silently or quietly with a friend or friends pretty much any time such gathering and quietness is allowed. And every morning there's a moment of silence after the Pledges.

[Night Owl]

Hooter, let me give examples. I worked at Ellison. For a time there was a kid they called Preacher. He led a voluntary group of kids in testimonials and prayers in the hall before class most mornings. No problem.

If, on the other hand, one of the teachers had called kids together and said it was time to pray and then led them in his religion's prayers (could be Unitarian, Jewish, Muslim, Baptist), then that becomes coercive or compelling.

There's a difference between voluntary and directed prayer.

Plus any kid can pray silently or quietly with a friend or friends pretty much any time such gathering and quietness is allowed. And every morning there's a moment of silence after the Pledges.
Thanks for helping make my point to onetime. A student can't pray anytime they want to.

Please explain where voluntary and directed prayer is covered in the Constitution? This taking of our rights has been going on for decades.

[Night Owl]

Why is it that liberals can't read and can't comprehend what the read once they learn how? I think most of them still move their lips when reading.

There is is a reason I asked this question.

The US Contitution states clearly that there is separation between church and state and that the STATE cannot pick a church/religion as the STATEs church. Nowhere does it hint at or actually say that a church cannot be involved with STATE matters. If the state allowed one specified religion to represent the state then it would be unconstitional. Allowing organized prayer at a sporting event, school gathering.........is not unconstitutional.

All this crying by liberals and their cohorts on the highest court in the land that have allowed no prayer in public schools is unconstitutional.

[FieryPrincess]

Much like we have had Presidents who have had trouble defining "is", we have widely different definitions out there of 'separation'

[gnatsum]

It is simple. Was he born a boy? Yes. Does his DNA say he's a boy? To the boys bathroom he goes. Deviant behavior should not be rewarded.

I was a chain restaurant recently that has some interesting restroom door labels. The chain is called 'Chicken Salad Chick', and does some pretty good chicken salad and chicken salad sandwiches...

Anyhoo...the doors to the restrooms are labeled 'Chicks'...and 'Chick Magnets'...
Made me stop and think...at no time in my life have I ever been a "chick magnet", based on the common definition of the term...but there have been a couple of times where someone has called me a 'chick' due to my tastes in restaurant food and cars...

[Grammar Rules]

Hooter, NO one can stand up in the middle of a classroom test or lecture and start preaching or praying out loud. You also can't do that during a court hearing or a city council meeting.

There's free speech and there's free exercise, but there's also decorum and disturbing the peace.

[Night Owl]

Hooter, NO one can stand up in the middle of a classroom test or lecture and start preaching or praying out loud. You also can't do that during a court hearing or a city council meeting.

There's free speech and there's free exercise, but there's also decorum and disturbing the pea
Don't disturb the pea you might get wet.

[mac]

Don't disturb the pea you might get wet.

maybe she meant "disturbing the piece".......mac (groan)

[Night Owl]

I was a chain restaurant recently that has some interesting restroom door labels. The chain is called 'Chicken Salad Chick', and does some pretty good chicken salad and chicken salad sandwiches...

Anyhoo...the doors to the restrooms are labeled 'Chicks'...and 'Chick Magnets'...
Made me stop and think...at no time in my life have I ever been a "chick magnet", based on the common definition of the term...but there have been a couple of times where someone has called me a 'chick' due to my tastes in restaurant food and cars...
When was you a chain restaurant?:)):))

[Night Owl]

maybe she meant "disturbing the piece".......mac (groan)
I'm not touching that one, literally.:))

[Ricky]

When was you a chain restaurant?:)):))

Now that's some funny s*** I don't care who you are :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

[mac]

I'm not touching that one, literally.:))

damn, i thought i might get away with that one.....kind of thought grammar might pick up on it but no one else.....mac

[Grammar Rules]

I just saw it. Good one!

[CenTexDave]

Of course you have transgender, then you have transspecies - i.e., Rosie O'Donnell. She looks more like a whale than a human.