KISD football is 2-10

[Bob_Popular]

This is not a post bashing anyone, but a post that asks the question of what is going on? Maybe someone on here is more in tune with things us common folk don't know. Why are our programs struggling so badly?

[CenTexDave]

I don't know. Shoemaker seems to be the class of Killeen so far this year.
We all should have a better idea of what is going on after next week's games when district play starts.

[xzochye]

Hmmm, KISD looks pretty good to me. :)

On another note, I am worried but excited about SHS's game next week. We play Temple:-s. However, I heard that one of their best players (I believe the qb) hurt his knee, possibly ACL last week and is probably going to be out. Hopefully it's nothing that doesn't require a few weeks of rest.

[CenTexDave]

Temple's QB, believe his name is Chad President - a Baylor recruit, tore his ACL last weekend and he's out for the year.
They (Temple) converted one of their WRs who played QB before into the signal caller slot. He ain't bad, but think Shoemaker can handle them.

[xzochye]

Temple's QB, believe his name is Chad President - a Baylor recruit, tore his ACL last weekend and he's out for the year.
They (Temple) converted one of their WRs who played QB before into the signal caller slot. He ain't bad, but think Shoemaker can handle them.

Hopefully he will make a full recovery and still play at Baylor. I do not wish severe injury on any player.

[CenTexDave]

Me either. The kid had talent for sure.

[Bob_Popular]

Any predictions about tonight's games?

[xzochye]

SHS wins over Temple, KHS loses to Cove, everyone else loses.

[CenTexDave]

I'll drink to that!!! :drinking

[xzochye]

Game delay. They won't let us up in the stands due to a brief downpour 20 minutes ago!!!!!

[CenTexDave]

14-14, Cove just ran kickoff back for TD.
Killeen's ground game is great. Gonna be a real battle.

[CenTexDave]

Upset is brewing: Killeen 20, Cove 14. Daniel McCants, Killeen RB, is eating them up.

[xzochye]

This game is too much! As soon as we score they score and vice versa. 14-20 them 4:34 in the 2nd

[xzochye]

See its 20-20 4:05 left

[xzochye]

20-21 them 1:58. NERVE RACKING!!!!

[CenTexDave]

24-20, Cove at the half
Come on Shoemaker, do it!!!!!!!!!!!

[xzochye]

27-27 :52 left

[CenTexDave]

Go Wolves!!!!!

[CenTexDave]

3rd quarter, 8:56 left, Dawgs-30, Killeen-20

[CenTexDave]

30-27. McCants scores again. Has over 200 on the night. I wonder where Cove's defense is tonight.

[CenTexDave]

Cove's playing like crap. Just fumbled on their own 16. Serves them right if they lose. Maybe Welch will finally decide to find a defensive coordinator.

[CenTexDave]

Killeen-34, Cove-30.

[kantwin]

Killeen-34, Cove-30.
Go Roos!

[Ludwig]

That's OK Dave. You can take solace in past glories.

[CenTexDave]

LOL. Congrats. Only took you guy 20 years to finally beat Cove. And if Cove's RB King had played you wouldn't have.

[xzochye]

End of 3rd 27-34 them.

[CenTexDave]

One thing is very apparent - Cove doesn't have a defense. Matter of fact, they haven't had a really good defense for years. You can't always put up 40 points. At some point you have to stop the other guy. This is what happens when you play stupid games like that team from Mexico every year. Pad your stats, but doesn't do a thing to get you ready for some serious competition.
Is now 41-30, Killeen. Good going Roos. I hope Jack Welch finally gets his head out of ass.

[RooDawg]

Midway beats Ellison 34-14.
Belton beats Heights 42-38...Belton was down 24-8 at one time
Temple up on the Shoe 34-27

[CenTexDave]

Heights collapsed again!!???

[xzochye]

Damn I'm nervous! 37-27 them. We have the ball with 3:21 left in the game.

[CenTexDave]

Good luck.
At least the Cleveland Indians and Rangers won tonight, and Tampa Bay lost!!

[JohnKilleen]

WAY TO GO ROOS................. HECK WE WILL PLAY ALL OUR GAMES AT FT HOOD

[xzochye]

It's night as well be over :( 1:32 left temple has the ball still 37-27

[CenTexDave]

LOL. That stadium sucks. I've seen 6-man stadiums better than that. Why the district puts up with that rinky dink mess is beyond me.

[xzochye]

LOL. That stadium sucks. I've seen 6-man stadiums better than that. Why the district puts up with that rinky dink mess is beyond me.

Lol I'm not going to complain about it. I like the seats and I live right off of Clear Creek.

[CenTexDave]

Just getting into the stadium is a hassle. I won't bother going to any games there. I used to go to many games at Leo
Buckley, and not just when Cove played there. I don't know who the district chair is this year, but they need to tell KISD to move their games to a football stadium that has locker rooms, toilets, running water. That thing on Fort Hood is a disgrace.

[Scarlett]

How is getting to the stadium a hassle? I still can't understand why people say that.
All the other complaints might have some merit...but getting there sure isn't a hassle!!!!

[JohnKilleen]

It is what it is for this season and we have to deal with it. Maybe next year KISD will come to their senses. Been to worse stadiums.

[cnjbond]

Hot diggity dog!!! Way to go ROOS!!!! I'm not a fan of the new stadium but dang it, if that's what it takes to beat Cove, I'm all for it! :)

Who dat say gonna beat dem Roos, who dat, who dat?!!!

[cnjbond]

Any predictions about tonight's games?


SHS wins over Temple, KHS loses to Cove, everyone else loses.


I'll drink to that!!! :drinking
So will I!!! :drinking
I bet my drink tasted a little better than yours! :)
Go Roos!!!

[Rick]

I'd say that Killeen gets to gloat a lot on this one after all the grief they've taken from Dave over the years.

Good job Killeen. :thumbsup

[olderthandirt]

Way to go, Roos!

[CenTexDave]

Yes they do Rick. I gave them grief because that is all I heard from when I moved here until 1998 when Cove finally got the monkey off their back and beat Ellison.
But this is good for area football in a number of ways. First, you gotta beat your neighbor once in a while. Second, district is now wide open. Third, maybe Welch will come down off his high horse. His great teams of the past decade are just that - past.
Congrats Roos. You earned it.

[Rick]

Third, maybe Welch will come down off his high horse.
Never going to happen. He's too full of himself.

[sojourner truth]

Yes they do Rick. I gave them grief because that is all I heard from when I moved here until 1998 when Cove finally got the monkey off their back and beat Ellison.
But this is good for area football in a number of ways. First, you gotta beat your neighbor once in a while. Second, district is now wide open. Third, maybe Welch will come down off his high horse. His great teams of the past decade are just that - past.
Congrats Roos. You earned it.

I'll see Sam in church tomorrow, and let him know you tip your hat to the better team....Of course, there may be a few tears on the brim.:))

Good job coach, and team.

Now, if the Eagles beat Cove, that will be poetic justice....And, somewhere up there alongside the parting of the sea.

[CenTexDave]

I don't understand Ellison's woes. There has to be talent there. Why is it so hard to find a good coach?

[Bob_Popular]

I don't understand Ellison's woes. There has to be talent there. Why is it so hard to find a good coach?

I think the bigger question is what is going on with Harker Heights second half collapses?!? How many is that now?

[CenTexDave]

4 in a row? Obviously have a potent offense, but fall apart in the second half.

[cuatro]

Ellison looks so much better and the coach is doing a good job. The starting QB has been injured so the backup is not as experienced. The defense actually is playing very well, the Eagles are much more disciplined during the game...hardly any stupid offsides, motion penalties that plagued them over the last few seasons. They just don't have a lot on offense. Not the coaches fault. They are playing better & harder than I've seen in at least the last 3-5 seasons. Also the Freshman team is doing very well and will be good to add to varsity in a year or so. Rome wasn't built in a day, and things are much better. Dave, have you seen them play yet?

[xzochye]

SHS could have done a lot better last night if they didn't screw the 1st quarter up. The field and ball were wet and they kept sliding or fumbling. Maybe Coach Hall heeds to hold a practice or 2 with the sprinklers on? :))

At least it was an actual game and not the usual huge blowouts that we usually receive. Hopefully I can still say that next week! :-s

[CenTexDave]

No, have not seen Ellison play. I haven't seen any of them play. I just listen on the radio. My days of going to the stadium are long past.

[sojourner truth]

The Eagles defense has really improved. What they need, and they are aware of it, is a viable running game. The new coach is a super guy. I have seen him with his kids on the sidelines, nurturing them through their problems and encouraging them when they deserve it. He actually talks to his players, not just at them.

I think, and this is just my opinion, that he has a few assistants that need to take some lessons from him. Talk to the player, not through him. With some work on offenseive line work, and a bit more effort, they will get that win they want so very bad.

I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that there have been a few kids that have left in frustration. I have a friend whose grandson was moved up from JV to the A team as a fill in running back/receiver due to a "loss"....

[CenTexDave]

I imagine there have been a few who have quit. I understand Cove had that problem too in the early 80's when they had that 20+ game losing streak.

[cnjbond]

Ellison looks so much better and the coach is doing a good job. The starting QB has been injured so the backup is not as experienced. The defense actually is playing very well, the Eagles are much more disciplined during the game...hardly any stupid offsides, motion penalties that plagued them over the last few seasons. They just don't have a lot on offense. Not the coaches fault. They are playing better & harder than I've seen in at least the last 3-5 seasons. Also the Freshman team is doing very well and will be good to add to varsity in a year or so. Rome wasn't built in a day, and things are much better. Dave, have you seen them play yet?
And here I was thinking that Jerry Jones was the only one who could talk up an under talented team into being one player away from a Championship win! ;)

I'm just pulling your leg cuatro, I hope the Eagles finally do get it together so that the games between Killeen & Ellison can return to the exciting slugfests that they used to be!

[onetime]

Lets get back to the original question, not to overshadow Killeen's huge win. As I have said before Killeen I.S.D. will only be as good as the district allows it to be. Pay the head coaches more with more power, stop splitting middle schools, stop allowing kids to "choose" where they go to school, if they start at a school make them stay there, pay the assistant coaches more, upgrade the facilities, give the coordinators fewer classes, allow the head coach to hire his middle school staff or at least have a say in the process, and lastly the district has a terrible habit of forcing coaches to keep people on their staff that are content with doing little to nothing, you could look around the entire district and spot 3 to 4 on each staff that probably fall into this category. If you look at the four high schools, Killeen's success stems from having a cohesive coaching staff that has been in place for almost 15 years minus some guys that have come and gone. Harker Heights not the case, Ellison far from it, and shoemaker is at the opposite end of the spectrum. No one will want to hear this but the only schools in the area that have the potential to make a two or three round playoff run are Harker Heights and Ellison, they have a good socioeconomic mix of kids and they have the numbers and athletes. Shoemaker will never make it out of the first round, they just do not and will not have the nucleus of program kids that will get them going. Killeen High is to inner city as far as the break down of the kids they have, no matter how good the coaching is there, they do not have "enough" good athletes and middle class kids to make them "consistently" relevant. They pulled off a stunner last night night versus a heights/ellison type group of kids (not coaching), but I do not think they would have the ability to do it to a midway type of school. Just my opinion.

[xzochye]

Lets get back to the original question, not to overshadow Killeen's huge win. As I have said before Killeen I.S.D. will only be as good as the district allows it to be. Pay the head coaches more with more power, stop splitting middle schools, stop allowing kids to "choose" where they go to school, if they start at a school make them stay there, pay the assistant coaches more, upgrade the facilities, give the coordinators fewer classes, allow the head coach to hire his middle school staff or at least have a say in the process, and lastly the district has a terrible habit of forcing coaches to keep people on their staff that are content with doing little to nothing, you could look around the entire district and spot 3 to 4 on each staff that probably fall into this category. If you look at the four high schools, Killeen's success stems from having a cohesive coaching staff that has been in place for almost 15 years minus some guys that have come and gone. Harker Heights not the case, Ellison far from it, and shoemaker is at the opposite end of the spectrum. No one will want to hear this but the only schools in the area that have the potential to make a two or three round playoff run are Harker Heights and Ellison, they have a good socioeconomic mix of kids and they have the numbers and athletes. Shoemaker will never make it out of the first round, they just do not and will not have the nucleus of program kids that will get them going. Killeen High is to inner city as far as the break down of the kids they have, no matter how good the coaching is there, they do not have "enough" good athletes and middle class kids to make them "consistently" relevant. They pulled off a stunner last night night versus a heights/ellison type group of kids (not coaching), but I do not think they would have the ability to do it to a midway type of school. Just my opinion.

Awe nice to see the KISD know it all back.....not

[juicyjuice]

KISD will never have winning power house programs until some things happen.
1. They hire coaches with WINNING records who have proven they know how to run a program
2. They have direct feeders from middle schools who follow the same athletic patterns and program as the high school they feed.
3. They begin coaching up youth in elementary through boys and girls club football or whatever other clubs Killeen has.

If training in Middle School is not consistent then you are behind the eight ball. HS coaches need to be more visible at the Middle Level and train up players. Football is not rocket science, but if you don't have someone who understands a complete PROGRAM of athletics, then you are doomed to have a failing football season.

[onetime]

KISD will never have winning power house programs until some things happen.
1. They hire coaches with WINNING records who have proven they know how to run a program
2. They have direct feeders from middle schools who follow the same athletic patterns and program as the high school they feed.
3. They begin coaching up youth in elementary through boys and girls club football or whatever other clubs Killeen has.

If training in Middle School is not consistent then you are behind the eight ball. HS coaches need to be more visible at the Middle Level and train up players. Football is not rocket science, but if you don't have someone who understands a complete PROGRAM of athletics, then you are doomed to have a failing football season.

I agree and disagree with this post, mainly agree. I think the boys club is a double edged sword, because most of the training here is not worth while unless you play a skilled position. It sets lineman and their coaches back weeks to undo the poor technique that is developed there and largely in middle school as well.

I could not agree more with the middle school (MS) feeder programs, but Killeen middle schools (not all of them) suffer from a lot of retirees and coaches that are just in it to be in it, win or lose. Most are not interested in running the plays the high school runs and the high school coaches usually do not have the time available to them to actually help the middle school staffs out. This is something KISD athletics should look into to aid in developing their kids. The KISD MS do not have adequate weight programs either, so the kids are usually lifting for the first time in high school. Compared to Midway they are 2 years behind these kids in terms of lifting and understanding lifts.

The coaches will come with a change in attitude by the district, if the pay stays the same with no change in the policy do not expect quality guys to come. Continue to expect middle of the road guys or coordinators from so-so programs to get the jobs. I am not sure why they have not given a shot to Killeen guys, Mark Humble or Richard Daniels but I guess they believe that they have a better chance with the recent hires.

[Bob_Popular]

I agree and disagree with this post, mainly agree. I think the boys club is a double edged sword, because most of the training here is not worth while unless you play a skilled position. It sets lineman and their coaches back weeks to undo the poor technique that is developed there and largely in middle school as well.

I could not agree more with the middle school (MS) feeder programs, but Killeen middle schools (not all of them) suffer from a lot of retirees and coaches that are just in it to be in it, win or lose. Most are not interested in running the plays the high school runs and the high school coaches usually do not have the time available to them to actually help the middle school staffs out. This is something KISD athletics should look into to aid in developing their kids. The KISD MS do not have adequate weight programs either, so the kids are usually lifting for the first time in high school. Compared to Midway they are 2 years behind these kids in terms of lifting and understanding lifts.

The coaches will come with a change in attitude by the district, if the pay stays the same with no change in the policy do not expect quality guys to come. Continue to expect middle of the road guys or coordinators from so-so programs to get the jobs. I am not sure why they have not given a shot to Killeen guys, Mark Humble or Richard Daniels but I guess they believe that they have a better chance with the recent hires.

The middle schools have a lot to do with the problem. Why our kids don't have an adequate weight room I have no idea. Killeen guys won't get a shot around here unfortunately, again I have no idea why not.

[Night Owl]

Maybe because KISDs focus is on academics, where it should be.

[Bob_Popular]

Maybe because KISDs focus is on academics, where it should be.

If that's the case then we should get rid of all extra curricular programs. Good bye athletics, band, choir, ROTC, dance teams, cheerleaders, and any other program that does not involve a grade and a teacher at the front of the class. How stupid does this sound? For you to write something so ridiculous is a slap in the face to the thousands of kids who have worked their butts off in all of these programs over the years. KISD's focus should be on providing an opportunity for all of our kids and to allow their talents to shine. Right now, they aren't doing that. They aren't giving our kids a fair shake. And you my friend, with your limited mindset of what education should look like are part of the problem. Time for people like you to fade away. Shhhhhhhhhhh

[Night Owl]

No, the problem is you and your ilk. More interested in a game than in an education. You worry about a won-loss record instead of education. How many of these kids will make a living playing a game, cheerleading, playing an instrument? Very few but they all need academics. I am not saying these other activities aren't important, but the focus should be academics. But you and many others live for Friday nights so you can relive your fanatics through kids playing a game. You need to fade away and let kids play and not make the focus of their success be defined by how many games they win or lose. When kids can't read you say, "that's ok at least you had a winning season.". What a sad world you live in.

[CenTexDave]

Come on, Owl. We all like the Friday Night Lights, but like you said - it's a game.
KISD seems to do fine on academics.
Still wish they'd tell Fort Hood to stuff that new stadium though. :))

[RooDawg]

I will tell you this...middle school football is a catastrophe in KISD...the coaching there is the worse coaching of football that I have ever seen...i have a son at a middle school and i have friends who have sons playing at other middle schools...it is the worse coaching of American football that i can imagine...

[CenTexDave]

Then get it changed. If enough parents raise hell about it the district should respond.
This is one reason Cove is so successful - Welch gave coaching clinics not just to the junior highs but also down at the city park & rec league. By the time those kids hit their freshman year they are decent.

[RooDawg]

When kids can't read you say, "that's ok at least you had a winning season.". What a sad world you live in.

The world I live in has kids who have winning seasons through hard work realize that they can be successful at reading through hard work and put more effort into becoming better readers just as they did on the field of play.

The world I live in has kids who, because they become competitors on the field of play, become competitors in the real world and do not get discouraged by negative things that happen to them.

The world I live in has kids learning about discipline and responsibility for themselves and others during their field of play and are able to become better citizens in that same world.

I will live in my world, NO, and you can live in yours.

[Night Owl]

The world I live in has kids who have winning seasons through hard work realize that they can be successful at reading through hard work and put more effort into becoming better readers just as they did on the field of play.

The world I live in has kids who, because they become competitors on the field of play, become competitors in the real world and do not get discouraged by negative things that happen to them.

The world I live in has kids learning about discipline and responsibility for themselves and others during their field of play and are able to become better citizens in that same world.

I will live in my world, NO, and you can live in yours.
What about the kids who have losing seasons and put in the same hard work? It is always rosy when you have blinders on. What about those kids that have winning seasons but still can't read above the third grade level. Earl Campbell, anyone?

What about those kids that aren't successful but played on a winning team?

I live in a world where academics will provide many more successful and better citizens because of academics.

I live in your world and don't like what I see. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same stupid things and expecting different results. There is no substitution for academics for 99 percent of students.

The world you live in supports the one percent of students and praise them because they can play a game and try to get teachers to change their grades so they can continue to play. Keep wearing your blinders and being part of the problem.

Their is a place for athletics in school but it should never be more important that academics. I know that is not your mindset but you are an enabler of that system because it puts a few extra dollars in your pocket. There is a complete institution in schools that depends on kids playing a game. Every coaching position in public schools should be filled by teachers who donate their time coaching teams. Then you would have the right to say you do it for the kids. Until then you only do it for the extra money you receive.

I know of many teachers who coach teams in public schools that don't receive extra pay, but they don't coach sports. They teach academic teams that also go to competitions but we almost never hear about them. They don't need stadiums, courts, or fields to compete. They need knowledge, learned from teachers, to win. They don't go by the title "coach" but they are better coaches than 90 percent of those coaches walking the sidelines.

Your world doesn't look so good once you strip away the glitter.

[CenTexDave]

It's part of life, my friend. They'll still get their letter jacket. And if you are correct about them giving it all, they will have the satisfaction of knowing they did their best.
Kids slip through the system for sure. Anyone remember when Spike Dykes was coaching Texas Tech? He had a running back named Byron Hanspard (sp???). Old Byron had a helluva soph or maybe it was junior season - lead the NCAA in rushing. Decided to come out early for the NFL draft. Nobody drafted him, nobody signed him as a free agent. Now out of football, last I heard he was selling used cars in Lubbock. :))

[Bob_Popular]

No, the problem is you and your ilk. More interested in a game than in an education. You worry about a won-loss record instead of education. How many of these kids will make a living playing a game, cheerleading, playing an instrument? Very few but they all need academics. I am not saying these other activities aren't important, but the focus should be academics. But you and many others live for Friday nights so you can relive your fanatics through kids playing a game. You need to fade away and let kids play and not make the focus of their success be defined by how many games they win or lose. When kids can't read you say, "that's ok at least you had a winning season.". What a sad world you live in.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh

[Bob_Popular]

What about the kids who have losing seasons and put in the same hard work? It is always rosy when you have blinders on. What about those kids that have winning seasons but still can't read above the third grade level. Earl Campbell, anyone?

What about those kids that aren't successful but played on a winning team?

I live in a world where academics will provide many more successful and better citizens because of academics.

I live in your world and don't like what I see. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same stupid things and expecting different results. There is no substitution for academics for 99 percent of students.

The world you live in supports the one percent of students and praise them because they can play a game and try to get teachers to change their grades so they can continue to play. Keep wearing your blinders and being part of the problem.

Their is a place for athletics in school but it should never be more important that academics. I know that is not your mindset but you are an enabler of that system because it puts a few extra dollars in your pocket. There is a complete institution in schools that depends on kids playing a game. Every coaching position in public schools should be filled by teachers who donate their time coaching teams. Then you would have the right to say you do it for the kids. Until then you only do it for the extra money you receive.

I know of many teachers who coach teams in public schools that don't receive extra pay, but they don't coach sports. They teach academic teams that also go to competitions but we almost never hear about them. They don't need stadiums, courts, or fields to compete. They need knowledge, learned from teachers, to win. They don't go by the title "coach" but they are better coaches than 90 percent of those coaches walking the sidelines.

Your world doesn't look so good once you strip away the glitter.

Shhhhhhhhhhh

[CenTexDave]

Forgot one thing about my last post - Byron Hanspard entered the NFL draft after his soph or junior year. He really had no choice - his GPA for the fall semester - during football season - was 0.0!!!!!!!!!!! :bluerofl:bluerofl:bluerofl He was shown the door by Texas Tech.

[Night Owl]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh
What an intelligent adult reply. That's what happens when you are losing the debate.

[Night Owl]

Shhhhhhhhhhh
Another intelligent adult reply.

[Bob_Popular]

Another intelligent adult reply.

Keep paying your taxes so we can buy all that athletic gear.

[Bob_Popular]

What an intelligent adult reply. That's what happens when you are losing the debate.

Oh and shhhhhhhhhh keep it down

[Night Owl]

Keep paying your taxes so we can buy all that athletic gear.
Another intelligent adult reply.

[Night Owl]

Oh and shhhhhhhhhh keep it down
And another one.

[Night Owl]

Keep paying your taxes so we can buy all that athletic gear.
Should I call you Obamba? I think I will.

[sojourner truth]

I was watching some of the coaches at church this morning as they were talking to some of the kids who play for different schools, and was so happy to hear them supporting the kids. One young guy who plays for Ellison was being talked to by Killeens and Jerrels coach and a few players from KHS and SHS, and they were all trying to cheer him up. It made me feel pretty good.

Plus, the kids that play for other schools all came over to tell KHS coach congrats for the excellent game they had in Cove Friday night. (sorry Dave)...

Truly a class act by these players and coaches, and it says a lot about their faith and sense of sportsmanship.

[Ludwig]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh

One can only assume that you were an athlete. Your intellectual deficiency is made apparent by your obvious inability to formulate a cogent argument in support of your position.

Thus you hiss like a serpent. Can I get a grunt from the pig next?

[onetime]

Roo brings up a good point and unfortunately in most cases at some of the middle schools, parent support is void. It is what it is, I would have to seriously consider the idea of my son (if I had one) playing middle school ball in the area. As a lot of bad habits are created at this stage in most instances you have 40-120 total kids that are being mentored by 4-8 coaches. These coaches are usually retirees with poor old school habits of coaching "bull in the ring", young guys out of college that have no experience in the game per se, guys on their last leg who could give a damn, guys that are one foot in and one foot out looking to get up to the high school, the I am going to do it my way, small picture guy, the guy who is coaching for a year because they could not find a suitable fit, the guy that is coaching that is not a suitable fit, and lastly the guys that love coaching and understand the game, but do not want to work the long hours that a high school coach puts in so they do middle school. The last guy is far and few between.

[Bob_Popular]

One can only assume that you were an athlete. Your intellectual deficiency is made apparent by your obvious inability to formulate a cogent argument in support of your position.

Thus you hiss like a serpent. Can I get a grunt from the pig next?

See post #61. You must have been one of the non athletes who couldn't read or at least count to 61. I know this will shock you but it's not just the athletes who graduate with the inability to read or write.

[Rick]

Can we stop with the personal insults?

[sojourner truth]

I was talking to a coach yesterday, and he was saying the same thing about a lack of experience at the middle school level. I got the impression that he saw what he got to deal with as players at the high school level were entry level players who had to learn the game basiacally from scratch, as they came from places that had no football program at the middle school level. No weight training, tactics, or other basics.

In an area like ours, there are 2 distinct disadvantages at least. The transient nature of the population makes it impossible to know what sort of crop of players you can count on in any given year. Plus, the problem starts at the feeder school level, where the kids may or may not have any experience with the game at all. If the kid gets to play at the middle school level, he may be out of here by the time he's ready for High school play.

Non military cities don't have that sort of problem....Billy Bob and Jimmy have been playing together since pee wee league, and by the time they get to High school, they know what each other had for breakfast without even asking.

Having 4 High schools makes the problem a bit tougher, since it really dilutes the talent hunt. It is what it is, and the local coaches have to deal with it as best they can....Having said that, and hearing what a few coaches have said, I am amazed that our local teams are as competitive as they are.

There is nothing better than Friday night lights, that's for sure...And the best thing we can do is show up and support the kids that make the effort as best we can, understanding that you can't win them all, no matter how much you want to. It also helps to understand that the coaches here have a lot of things going against them from jump street, and do a pretty darn good job considering.

[Ludwig]

Would the situation not be improved if we had one High School with four campuses?

[CenTexDave]

Maybe. Maybe not.
Katy High School doesn't seem to suffer at all. Of course, they other high schools in Katy seem to be sacrificial lambs for the Katy Tigers, although usually one of the others does make the playoffs.

[sojourner truth]

The coach I talked to said they know that is just dumb thinking, and that what they have is what they have, and they have to deal with it as best they can.

I got the impression that a little more emphasis at the middle school level would be a bonus. Maybe the idea floated earlier about monitoring middle school programs a bit closer, and maybe encouraging the kiddos at that level to get more involved would help. That and an empasis on weight training along with the facilities that go with it.

As for Katy, or Austin, or Waco or Belton...they don't have populations that change every 2 to 3 years. They have kids that are together from elementary school through college many times. Plus, they are born and raised in a state that loves football so much that it has withdrawal symptoms every winter when it's over for the year. In other words, those cities are "ststic" and stable. Football is part of their daily lives mostly. Everyone wants to be a part of it. Not so much if you grow up moving from Bamberg to Fort Richards every 2 or 3 years.

It's a problem for sure. One that doesn't appear to have a good solution. No matter what you do, you can't change the way things are as far as the available athlete resources...That's why the only thing that ever changes is coaching staff.

[Agent X]

It seems a majority of folks want to live in Roo Dawg and Bob Popular's world and not NO's. Elected officials continually fund athletic programs and facilities, communities continue to support bonds for constructing facilities and parents provide significant support for their kids that participate in athletic endeavors.

Public school coaches certainly aren't getting rich with the $3K or so they receive in a coaching stipend. Head coaches and athletic coordinators make a pretty good living but it's not really that much dough.

IMO, the observation that kids "can't read" due to athletics is narrow-minded, simplistic and quite frankly ludicrous. I believe that if we ended organized athletics tomorrow we would see a decrease in academic performance immediately.

[CenTexDave]

I think you have misunderstood our Feathered Friend. NO is not saying do away with athletics and extra curricular activities. He just feels too much money is being sunk into them. And he may be correct.

[Night Owl]

It seems a majority of folks want to live in Roo Dawg and Bob Popular's world and not NO's. Elected officials continually fund athletic programs and facilities, communities continue to support bonds for constructing facilities and parents provide significant support for their kids that participate in athletic endeavors.

Public school coaches certainly aren't getting rich with the $3K or so they receive in a coaching stipend. Head coaches and athletic coordinators make a pretty good living but it's not really that much dough.

IMO, the observation that kids "can't read" due to athletics is narrow-minded, simplistic and quite frankly ludicrous. I believe that if we ended organized athletics tomorrow we would see a decrease in academic performance immediately.
Live in whatever world you want to live in. It wont change my opinion. I believe that if the focus was on academics we would be better off as a society. Who said kids can't read due to athletics? I didn't. Kids can't read because the kid ain't too smart to begin with but can play a game real good. Coaches put pressure on teachers to ensure that athlete gets a passing grade so the good athlete can play. Happens all the time at high school and college. The reason kids can't read is caused by many factors. The home being the most important. However, the public school system is also to blame. If a kid can't read I am sure teachers and admin have been passing these students even if the cant read. Get rid of them and the problem is solved. Graduate them and the problem goes away. Current testing proves that many kids can't read or comprehend what they are reading, but they are passed along anyway.

I agree that organized athletics is good for the kids. I also think that physical activity is good for kids but the schools dont allow that any more unless the kid is on a team. My question is at what level should organized athletics be funded. The money spent should reflect something close to sanity. When a school cannot afford books for students but can support an athletic program then the priorities are wrong. Academics first but that is not the case.


I understand the mindset of those that support athletics. Many make a living supporting this endeavor. Their livelihood depends on athletics continuing and even getting bigger. When is enough finally enough? A prime example is a $4.5 million press box at a high school. Where is the justification. A high school is not a for profit organization. The money being spent, wasted in my opinion, is taxpayer money.

[Rick]

Administrative inquiry:

What do I need to change the title of the thread to? :)

[Bob_Popular]

Live in whatever world you want to live in. It wont change my opinion. I believe that if the focus was on academics we would be better off as a society. Who said kids can't read due to athletics? I didn't. Kids can't read because the kid ain't too smart to begin with but can play a game real good. Coaches put pressure on teachers to ensure that athlete gets a passing grade so the good athlete can play. Happens all the time at high school and college. The reason kids can't read is caused by many factors. The home being the most important. However, the public school system is also to blame. If a kid can't read I am sure teachers and admin have been passing these students even if the cant read. Get rid of them and the problem is solved. Graduate them and the problem goes away. Current testing proves that many kids can't read or comprehend what they are reading, but they are passed along anyway.

I agree that organized athletics is good for the kids. I also think that physical activity is good for kids but the schools dont allow that any more unless the kid is on a team. My question is at what level should organized athletics be funded. The money spent should reflect something close to sanity. When a school cannot afford books for students but can support an athletic program then the priorities are wrong. Academics first but that is not the case.


I understand the mindset of those that support athletics. Many make a living supporting this endeavor. Their livelihood depends on athletics continuing and even getting bigger. When is enough finally enough? A prime example is a $4.5 million press box at a high school. Where is the justification. A high school is not a for profit organization. The money being spent, wasted in my opinion, is taxpayer money.

Ok night owl, please get this years athletic budget as well as the "academic" budget as you say. We will compare the two

[bbh]

Maybe I was just lucky, but in 18 years of teaching, I never had a coach put the least amount of pressure on me about an athlete's grades. 99% of the time the coaches were more than helpful to me when I went to them out of concern over the student's grades. We worked together.

[Agent X]

The world you live in supports the one percent of students and praise them because they can play a game and try to get teachers to change their grades so they can continue to play. Keep wearing your blinders and being part of the problem.

By your own admission, only a very small percentage will leverage their athletic ability into higher education opportunities and an even more miniscule percentage will ever play professional sports. Yet many, many kids continue to come out and participate in sports of all kinds. I would say that the kids are voting with their presence and the marketplace is responding to this vote. If there were not benefits to the kids that participate then participation would dwindle.

My own children have participated in organized sports and never gained a college scholarship or reached a professional level yet they feel as if they benefitted from the experience. They also have graduated (or will soon graduate) in the top 10 (not percent) of their class.

The accusation of grade-changing is serious and quite frankly is offensive to the professional educators that work with our kids daily. After October 11, the numbers of kids participating in sports in HS and MS will drop dramatically due to grades. Football practices have been delayed in the afternoons so that students may attend tutoring and work on their schoolwork. Many would not take advantage unless prompted by coaches and peers to work hard to remain eligible.


[QUOTE]Every coaching position in public schools should be filled by teachers who donate their time coaching teams.

Do you donate your time at your place of employment to the tune of 20 plus hours a week?


I live in a world where academics will provide many more successful and better citizens because of academics.


This assumes that successful athletic programs and academic achievement are mutually exclusive. Research has shown this not to be true.

The entire premise proposed by Night Owl portrays our school district, teachers and student-athletes like a bad episode of Friday Night Lights. My involvment as a parent of student-athletes in KISD has been far different than portrayed.

[Night Owl]

Ok night owl, please get this years athletic budget as well as the "academic" budget as you say. We will compare the two
I have tried but the budget doesn't include certain items. Those items are under under areas of the budget. Travel is lumped under all travel for KISD and isn't broken out for athletics for example. It is a nice way to not have to account for costs for athletics. The same is true for meals, labor costs, utilities and many other items. It would be nice to have those figures but they aren't available. I am sure you know that already.

[Night Owl]

By your own admission, only a very small percentage will leverage their athletic ability into higher education opportunities and an even more miniscule percentage will ever play professional sports. Yet many, many kids continue to come out and participate in sports of all kinds. I would say that the kids are voting with their presence and the marketplace is responding to this vote. If there were not benefits to the kids that participate then participation would dwindle.

My own children have participated in organized sports and never gained a college scholarship or reached a professional level yet they feel as if they benefitted from the experience. They also have graduated (or will soon graduate) in the top 10 (not percent) of their class.

The accusation of grade-changing is serious and quite frankly is offensive to the professional educators that work with our kids daily. After October 11, the numbers of kids participating in sports in HS and MS will drop dramatically due to grades. Football practices have been delayed in the afternoons so that students may attend tutoring and work on their schoolwork. Many would not take advantage unless prompted by coaches and peers to work hard to remain eligible.

[QUOTE]
Do you donate your time at your place of employment to the tune of 20 plus hours a week?



This assumes that successful athletic programs and academic achievement are mutually exclusive. Research has shown this not to be true.

The entire premise proposed by Night Owl portrays our school district, teachers and student-athletes like a bad episode of Friday Night Lights. My involvment as a parent of student-athletes in KISD has been far different than portrayed.
Kids like to play games. Many play since they will be popular at school. You know that and so do I. If this is such a great thing for kids then why is there a try out and kids get cut because they aren't good enough. Those kids could also benefit from teamwork but they don't get the chance. Why, because instead of thinking of the benefits to the kids it is about winning the game. This can be seen in KISD since schools go through coaches like grain through a goose because the team doesn't win.

From your own story and experience your kids are not the normal student at school. They are exceptional.

If you don't believe teachers aren't pressured to change grades then you are living in another world. The grades and quality of most athletes attending college is proof enough for me. Their SAT scores are below average but are admitted because they can play a game. It happens every year, year end and year out. They should not have been allowed to graduate from high school, but they do. How many times has the NCAA investigated schools because of athletes not attending classes but still receiving passing grades. I think the latest is Oklahoma State. As the saying goes, "where there is smoke, there is fire.". I hope it isn't happening at KISD but it wouldn't surprise me if it is. That is only degrading to the teachers and coaches that do it.

At my job I was paid a salary. So yes I donated many hours to my employer. Many more than 20 hours a week. But what your reply is saying is that it isn't about the kids, it's about the money. At least you are honest.

My experience with public schools is that it isn't about a quality education, it's about a pay check. Teachers today aren't allowed to provide a quality education in public schools. The powers that be are more interested in making sure paperwork is done, policies are followed, meetings are scheduled as required and teaching comes in at 4 or 5 on the priority list. Teachers are expected to prepare, grade papers, and numerous other education related items on their own time. But that is a different topic.

[RooDawg]

Live in whatever world you want to live in. It wont change my opinion. I believe that if the focus was on academics we would be better off as a society. Who said kids can't read due to athletics? I didn't. Kids can't read because the kid ain't too smart to begin with but can play a game real good. Coaches put pressure on teachers to ensure that athlete gets a passing grade so the good athlete can play. Happens all the time at high school and college. The reason kids can't read is caused by many factors. The home being the most important. However, the public school system is also to blame. If a kid can't read I am sure teachers and admin have been passing these students even if the cant read. Get rid of them and the problem is solved. Graduate them and the problem goes away. Current testing proves that many kids can't read or comprehend what they are reading, but they are passed along anyway.

I agree that organized athletics is good for the kids. I also think that physical activity is good for kids but the schools dont allow that any more unless the kid is on a team. My question is at what level should organized athletics be funded. The money spent should reflect something close to sanity. When a school cannot afford books for students but can support an athletic program then the priorities are wrong. Academics first but that is not the case.


I understand the mindset of those that support athletics. Many make a living supporting this endeavor. Their livelihood depends on athletics continuing and even getting bigger. When is enough finally enough? A prime example is a $4.5 million press box at a high school. Where is the justification. A high school is not a for profit organization. The money being spent, wasted in my opinion, is taxpayer money.

You do have many opinions about our educational system. And I won't try to change your opinion. I do want to point out your opinions though to make sure that everyone else on here is hearing what those opinions are:

"Coaches put pressure on teachers to ensure that athlete gets a passing grade so the good athlete can play."
"If a kid can't read, I AM SURE teachers and admin have been passing these students even if the can't read. Get rid of them and the problem is solved. Graduate them and the problem goes away. Current testing proves that many kids can't read or comprehend what they are reading, but they are passed along the way."
"When a school cannot afford books for students but can support an athletic program then the priorities are wrong."

I won't comment on any of these because, again, I am not trying to change your opinion. I would like for others reading this to consider your opinions and consider, for themselves, if any of these statements are true from what they hear about our educational system.

Everyone, please look into the possibilities of these opinions as being true and see for yourself. Don't just take NO's opinions as true.

[RooDawg]

The grades and quality of most athletes attending college is proof enough for me. Their SAT scores are below average but are admitted because they can play a game. It happens every year, year end and year out. They should not have been allowed to graduate from high school, but they do.

Was there not an article in the paper not too many days ago about a National Merit Scholar at Ellison High School?...who happens to play on the Varsity Basketball team? (To be selected as a National Merit Scholar you have to perform very high on the SAT test.)

[RooDawg]

Why am I following NO down this closed road?

I just want to add another # to my post total...gotta get to the 1000 post milestone.

[Night Owl]

Wow, one example. Everything must be ok. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[bbh]

Night Owl, you and I both know that we agree on many, many important issues. I have often wondered, though, why you view the education system, KISD, and particularly KISD teachers and coaches in such a negative light. We are all a product of our experiences, so I'd like to ask........have you had particularly bad personal experiences with KISD teachers and coaches?

Of course, you absolutely have the right to tell me it's none of my business. :)

[xzochye]

Wow, one example. Everything must be ok. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Here are two more examples: my son plays football and baseball, took the SAT in 7th (just like your granddaughter) and now in his junior year is enrolled in a program where he is taking 12 college hours at Temple college, 1 hour at CTC and 2 AP classes at his high school campus. His best friend does the exact thing but he plays baseball year round. Fall and summer on a traveling league and spring with the school.

There are many more successful high school athletes. I'm not going to say there are not students that can't read etc on these teams because I just don't know that to be a fact. I will say that if that are some that fall in this category it's a very small percentage. Although I will agree one is too many.

[bbh]

Regarding my question to Night Owl in post #101. I think I understand a big part of the answer is in your post #140 on "Shutting Down Government."

[Night Owl]

Night Owl, you and I both know that we agree on many, many important issues. I have often wondered, though, why you view the education system, KISD, and particularly KISD teachers and coaches in such a negative light. We are all a product of our experiences, so I'd like to ask........have you had particularly bad personal experiences with KISD teachers and coaches?

Of course, you absolutely have the right to tell me it's none of my business. :)
Yes with my granddaughter. The dispute went all the way to CO and my daughter finally had to transfer her to a different school. It involved the daughter of a teacher.

[bbh]

Yes with my granddaughter. The dispute went all the way to CO and my daughter finally had to transfer her to a different school. It involved the daughter of a teacher.

I hear ya, Owl! There is NOTHING that would get my "Nana-Bear" fire going faster than seeing someone mistreat one of my six grandbabies!!!!

[xzochye]

I hear ya, Owl! There is NOTHING that would get my "Nana-Bear" fire going faster than seeing someone mistreat one of my six grandbabies!!!!

Very true! But don't hold one or two bad apples against everyone. :)

[Night Owl]

When a school district from the teacher level thru CO puts a teacher and her bully daughter in a favored position, just because she is a teacher, over any other child doesn't deserve a break. From what I can see from this forum that this happens every time then I see a corrupt system. I will call out those problems when I see them happening. The system needs to be changed.

[Bob_Popular]

Wow, one example. Everything must be ok. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

So why aren't you calling out the teachers of students who graduate but can't read? Not every non-reader was an athlete. Sucks for you that you can't blame a coach for that.

[Night Owl]

So why aren't you calling out the teachers of students who graduate but can't read? Not every non-reader was an athlete. Sucks for you that you can't blame a coach for that.
I have. You need to learn to read. You continue to prove you ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Coaches have enough to be blamed for, don't you know.