Minor problems and fixes - firing pins and magazines

[Mestral]

Since getting my automatic (9mm), I have had a few minor problems. Some. I fixed easily, some, not so much.

I initially had two magazines that, in use would fail to feed, leaving the next round standing straight up from the magazine, in the ejection port. I discovered the lips were spread too much, and using the groove at the base of the bullet for a guide, tightened them with a pair of needle nose. 90% fix. Using a feeler gauge (mechanic's tool from the 70's), I went about .01 inches tighter, and that did the trick. (If I had a casing from a .32 auto, I could have used the groove at the base of that bullet for a gauge)

Currently, about 1 out of every 20 or so rounds, I get a light strike. (and I don't want to be like the guy trying to off the guy on stage in Bulgaria) I had been pretty stingy with the oil in the trigger and hammer area of the weapon, a strategy I learned in the desert, to prevent attracting dust. So this time back from the range, I doused it pretty liberally. Don't know if that will do it, but hoping.

[Dagobert II]

What's the make/model of the 9mm. I've been told that Glocks like VERY little oil, or even cleaning for that matter. Also, I've NEVER had a problem with a Glock manufactured magazine from the 10-30 round capacities.

[Mestral]

I got the cheapest reliable name on the market - Hi-Point. Has lifetime warranty, so if the light strikes continue it will go back for new spring and firing pin (there is a Hi-Point forum and I have read a couple others had to be returned). I didn't know how much oil to use until recently. I guess every firearm is different. That is part of the reason I started this thread.

Just like a little shade tree mechanical knowledge was needed back in the 60's, I think everyone is going to need to know a little about their firearms and some home gunsmithing in these next few years. I hope some of us can take a little mystery out of it.

[sojourner truth]

I had the same problem with my Llama .380. It was the brand of ammo I was using. I had bought one of those 100 round bags on sale at a gun show, and when I shot that stuff, it would either fail to fire, or just pop up vertically standing straight up in the ejection port. I switched to a brand name .380 round and that fixed the problem. Same thing with the MP 15-22. If I shot Winchester ammo out of it, I never knew if it was going to fire, feed, or spray lead from a bad seat. After doings some on line research, I switched to regular old Federal 22 long rifle (which was what many owners said would fix the problem ) and it did.

Sometimes ammo can be the problem. Evidently, Winchester 22 is meant for recolvers and lever actions. With bagged gun show ammo, you never know what you are really getting unless it's in a box.

[Mestral]

I have a couple 22 rounds from reminton, and a couple federal. Looking at it it looks like the weight of bullet itself is distributed a little differently, with the federal having more weight closer to the nose of the bullet. On an autoloader, that can make a difference.

That is probably getting a little more technical than I meant to get, but the gist of it is that automatics can be a bit finicky on what ammo they will eat.

Until I got these light strikes (again, possibly due to lack of oil on the hammer assy), my Hi-Point would eat anything I put in it. Have to have a tight grip, though. I know of two seasoned shooters that were getting repeated stovepipes (fired shell sticking out of the ejection port, for those not familiar with the term), and thought they needed heavier ammo. But I convinced them and they found next time they went to the range, that it was due to not holding the pistol tight enough.

OTOH, I know at least one person on this forum has a Diamondback. That, and most other subcompact 9mm have a warning attached. The are usually tuned for a particular kind of ammo. The maker of the Dimondback says no +P ammo, and nothing over 124 grains.

[Mestral]

. . I didn't know how much oil to use until recently. I guess every firearm is different. That is part of the reason I started this thread.
Just like a little shade tree mechanical knowledge was needed back in the 60's, I think everyone is going to need to know a little about their firearms and some home gunsmithing in these next few years. I hope some of us can take a little mystery out of it.
I have a question about revolvers, if anyone has much experience ...
I have a blued steel 357 that when I eject the shells spent they stick somewhat in the cylinder. Not badly, but I have to pick them out one by one, instead of just dumping them. The ejector pulls them about 3/4 of the way out, but that last half inch of metal on the shell casing is getting enough grip on the last half inch of cylinder to keep them in.

The gun has had 200 to 300 rounds (all 38+P) put through it. I have done a fairly good job cleaning the cylinder, and lube it a little with Rem Oil, but not enough to drip. Do I need to use more oil? A different kind of oil? Some kind of treatment? Really give the cylinder a scrubbing? Or is this just a drawback of blued steel, and I have to live with it?

[mac]

i have the same problems with a cobra and a taurus but i always thought they prob'ly weren't designed to fall out.

where are you all shooting these automatics at? at one time, for a while, i had an automatic calico but ft. hood, florence and gatesville wouldn't let me fire it on their range......mac


I have a question about revolvers, if anyone has much experience ...
I have a blued steel 357 that when I eject the shells spent they stick somewhat in the cylinder. Not badly, but I have to pick them out one by one, instead of just dumping them. The ejector pulls them about 3/4 of the way out, but that last half inch of metal on the shell casing is getting enough grip on the last half inch of cylinder to keep them in.

The gun has had 200 to 300 rounds (all 38+P) put through it. I have done a fairly good job cleaning the cylinder, and lube it a little with Rem Oil, but not enough to drip. Do I need to use more oil? A different kind of oil? Some kind of treatment? Really give the cylinder a scrubbing? Or is this just a drawback of blued steel, and I have to live with it?

[Mestral]

i have the same problems with a cobra and a taurus but i always thought they prob'ly weren't designed to fall out.

where are you all shooting these automatics at? at one time, for a while, i had an automatic calico but ft. hood, florence and gatesville wouldn't let me fire it on their range......macWould have been better in the Range thread (so, I will cross post it) but:

If it isn't full auto, Hicksville in Gatesville will have no problem with your Calico.
The only rules I have seen are against any exotic (like armor piercing) ammo, or erratic behavior.
The owner (John Hicks) is a Vietnam Vet, and his management is pretty friendly,
not anal like standard (or government run) ranges.

[sojourner truth]

I'm trying to find someone who has an auto on here, and I can't. MAc, you know as well as I do many times folks will say auto when talking about a semi auto.

Wish I had an auto...I'd love to have an old grease gun or a Thompson.

[mac]

yeow, it's true i know a lot of folks use "auto" instead of semi-auto" but generally not folks who are familiar with weapons, it's generally folks like feinstein or boxer or such but........so are you sayin' now that mestral really doesn't have an auto......that he really meant semi-auto?

i might be able to help you with your search for someone who has an auto......why are you lookin' for him?.....mac


I'm trying to find someone who has an auto on here, and I can't. MAc, you know as well as I do many times folks will say auto when talking about a semi auto.

Wish I had an auto...I'd love to have an old grease gun or a Thompson.

[Shotgun Jeremy]

You'll know it if you have a full auto. They're VERY expensive and you have to send off for a tax stamp. I think its safe to say he was talking about a semi-auto.


As far as the original post-have you tried taking a wire brush to your cylinders? Maybe try smoothing them out a little?

[mac]

yeow, but i think it's safe to say he was talkin' 'bout an automatic. he generally knows what he's talkin' 'bout and means what he says...

might wanna try a brass brush before you use a wire brush on that cylinder, mestral. just sayin'.....mac


You'll know it if you have a full auto. They're VERY expensive and you have to send off for a tax stamp. I think its safe to say he was talking about a semi-auto.


As far as the original post-have you tried taking a wire brush to your cylinders? Maybe try smoothing them out a little?

[mac]

not only do you have to have special permission but you have to give the feds prior permission to search you, your residence, your lodging, your vehicle any day at any time....worse even than a "no knock".


You'll know it if you have a full auto. They're VERY expensive and you have to send off for a tax stamp. I think its safe to say he was talking about a semi-auto.


As far as the original post-have you tried taking a wire brush to your cylinders? Maybe try smoothing them out a little?

[Shotgun Jeremy]

If he's got a full auto Glock, he better post a video of that bad boy. Lol

[Mestral]

Full Auto? Ugg.
Revolver?
Please?

Yes, I will stick to using a brass brush.

[sojourner truth]

Naah..I don't want a full auto. Too much of a pain to get, license, and maintain. If you do itlegally anyhow. Ammo costs too much too.

I have some semi auto weapons that fire fast enough to please me. If I need anything bigger or badder, I'll start looking for a thumper.:))

[Mestral]

Ammo costs too much too.One of two reasons I keep a revolver in the house.
(The other reason is my wife can't chamber a round in my 9mm,
something I have found is VERY common)

[Dagobert II]

I have a full auto M-60. I haven't fired it in a while but I have plenty of ammo for it. I don't know any range where I can fire it, but I have friends living outside of town who have let me shoot it on their property.

The Glock 18 is the only factory-made select fire Glock. It is NOT simply a Glock 17 with a selector switch. If one tries to put the slide from a G18 on a G17 you will find that it does not fit. I believe the G18 slide actually sits higher on the rails of the frame. BUT if you want a select fire or full auto only Glock there ARE solutions available. Both solutions involve taking about five seconds to remove the back plate from the slide and replacing it with either a select fire or full auto only back plate. Both back plates achieve full auto by incorporating a metal wedge that comes forward with the slide and back plate to the point where the wedge can trip the striker release holding the striker back from the primer. When the striker is released at the closing of the slide, the gun goes boom, the slide recoils back until the spring pushes it back into battery and if you're still holding the trigger down it goes boom again and keeps going boom until you release the trigger or the magazine is empty. Rate of fire for a 9mm Glock on full auto is about 1200 rounds per minute.

The difference between the selective fire and full auto only back plate is a switch on the back plate of the selective fire version that allows the metal wedge to be pulled back a distance from the striker release thus allowing the slide to go back into battery without the metal wedge of the back plate tripping the striker release. When the selective fire switch is placed in the full auto position the metal wedge is pushed forward. The full auto only back plate is generally of one piece construction and the wedge is fixed so it ALWAYS trips the striker release.

This back plates can be ordered on line WITHOUT notifying BATFE. If the back plate is completely finished BATFE considers it a machine gun but will NOT give you permission to own it because it is not pre-1986 manufacture. One of these fully finished back plates is German manufacture and is often shipped to the US from the Philippines. It is a very high quality product. They generally don't care about BATFE rules and will ship whatever is ordered to whomever orders it. It's up to the American alphabet soup agencies that protect us from ourselves to catch what is being imported from the Philippines and everywhere else. Some Americans have ordered these back plates, received them, and posted themselves shooting their select fire Glocks on Youtube. There is also an American company that sells their differently designed full auto only and select fire back plates on line. They will only send you a fully functional one if you first send them a copy of your BATFE Form 1 with tax stamp showing you have permission from Big Brother - and Big Brother won't give YOU permission. It will give permission to law enforcement agencies though, 'cause we live in a tyranny where all animals are equal but pigs are more equal than others. What the American company WILL sell to you on line is an almost completed back plate that still requires a bit of machining to become functional. BATFE hasn't yet sunk to the level of declaring largely unformed chunks of metal to be machine guns so buying these incomplete 'kits' is perfectly legal. The seller will even send you the forms to submit to BATFE under the pretense that you are stupid enough to ask BATFE for permission to build a machine gun. The metal sent by the seller is not serial numbered but you are instructed by the seller to make up a serial number for your chunks of metal and, using a microscope I suppose, engrave those numbers onto your chunks of metal for BATFE registration should they be so graceful as to grant one.

The device itself, not the Glock you attach it to, is the machine gun and, according to the sellers, the devices can be interchanged with any Glocks using the same dimensioned back plates - which is probably 90% of all Glocks.

If you are considering upgrading your Glock to full auto or selective fire, you may want to consider some other upgrades besides the select fire/full auto back plate. The first is a large capacity magazine. At the rate of 1200 rounds/minute, the 10 round magazine of the Glock 26 will be gone in .5 seconds. At present, BATFE does not care about the size of your magazine. New York and California will have hissy fits, but BATFE doesn't care. The next recommended upgrade would be a stock of some sort to allow you to hold that fire-spitting beast steady. There are several really neat drop-in stocks made for Glocks available on line. Here again, BATFE has a 'rule'. The rule is basically "no". Why? Because putting a shoulder stock and/or fore grip on your handgun make it a "short barreled firearm" and we all know what havoc short barreled firearms have played throughout history.

Since you asked for pictures, here's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5vYy1YC294

[Mestral]

There are several different modes of failure. When someone says they had a failure, it is often of interest to find out what kind of failure, so we can know if the mode of failure is relevant to our own weapon.


Used Winchester white box, and had 2 failures. Don't think I'll buy that.
The first question is "failure to feed? or failure to fire?"
Then: "were there any marks on the casing after clearing the failed round?" (of course, most people don't look for that)

Oh, yeah, and I forgot, there is also failure to eject.

[kantwin]

There are several different modes of failure. When someone says they had a failure, it is often of interest to find out what kind of failure, so we can know if the mode of failure is relevant to our own weapon. The first question is "failure to feed? or failure to fire?" Then: "were there any marks on the casing after clearing the failed round?" (of course, most people don't look for that) Oh, yeah, and I forgot, there is also failure to eject.
Mine were failure to eject. WWB 9mm. Ruger LC9.

[Mestral]

Unless you were using the "NATO" designated boxes, the WWB ammo is 100 rounds, packed loose in a box. They are 115 grain, standard velocity. One thing that is not well known about them is that they are "seconds" and didn't precisely meet the standards for Winchester ammo.

The flaw could be cosmetic, but some guys with chronographs and too much time on their hands a couple of years ago did a comparison between those and the ammo that came in 50 count boxes. IIRC (If I Recall Correctly), they did comparisons using both the WWB and Remington's UMC bulk boxes, and in both cases, velocities ran a little low, and had a little more variation than the rounds in the 50 count box. Not much, most were just outside what appeared to be the standard used by the manufacture. This indicates to me that after the round is completely finished, it undergoes a QA check that includes weight. I would expect them to check for incorrect depth on the bullet and
primer and a precise check of the weight of the finished product.

I suspect the most likely defect, other than cosmetic, that would cause them to be sold as "seconds" would be that the powder charge was a little light, and this would account for them registering a little low on velocity.

IIRC the LC9, like the LCP, is a lightweight pistol that utilizes a locked breach. Using a light bullet and standard powder charge would reduce the recoil. Add to that, the extra tolerance for low velocities, and a couple of failures to cycle properly would be exactly what I would expect.

I have two side notes on this. One is that my personal weapon fails differently. On a light round, mine still ejects the spent, but fails to feed the next round (and in fact, leaves it in the magazine). Second, you can either train with more powerful rounds or use the occasional failure as an opportunity for training on such failures. If, however, you are using this ammo for marksmanship practice (not just practicing form and function) you certainly need ammo that more precisely mimics your defense ammo.

[kantwin]

The WWB was 100 rounds loose in a box.
I read the same thing you did, that they may be light on the powder.
It was a really good price at the time-$29.95 if I recall, when most other 9mm was going for over .45 per round. Had to be back in February or March.
I bought it mainly just to get some rounds. Never use FMJ for PD, they would be used at the range.
Since I occasionally mix a Snap Cap in a magazine to simulate a failure, they did the same function. I may reconsider my earlier statement that I would avoid purchasing the WWB.

[mac]

Mine were failure to eject. WWB 9mm. Ruger LC9.

so,.....it extracted but did not eject? do i have that right?....mac

[kantwin]

so,.....it extracted but did not eject? do i have that right?....mac
Correct.

[Mestral]

so,.....it extracted but did not eject? do i have that right?....mac

Correct.So the shell casing ended up stuck somewhere in a half open breech? If I understand that correctly, simply not holding the pistol tightly can cause the same problem.

(With your experience, I have no doubt you were holding it correctly, but for some others who experience similar malfunctions, they need to know that not using a tight grip is a common mistake that leads to malfunctions in simi-auto handguns.)

[kantwin]

Imagine if you had shell casings in the magazine, and tried to chamber a round, and the casing did not go into the chamber, since it didn't have the bevel of the bullet. That's pretty much what it looked like. It wasn't a stovepipe.

[Mestral]

Imagine if you had shell casings in the magazine, and tried to chamber a round, and the casing did not go into the chamber, since it didn't have the bevel of the bullet. That's pretty much what it looked like. It wasn't a stovepipe.Got it. The recoil was weak enough the casing didn't engage the ejector pin, and so didn't turn the 90 degrees required for a stovepipe. Still same mode of failure.

[Mestral]

As I was thinking about this, there is one other possibility. The extractors job is to keep the base of the shell steady during the last half of its rearward movement (when the pressure has dissipated from the chamber) so if the extractor is worn, or if the rim at the base of the shell is malformed, it could give the same result. I would expect, though, in those cases, the next round would be out of the magazine and trying to share the space with the spent casing.

[mac]

of its rearward movement (when the pressure has dissipated from the chamber) so if the extractor is worn, or if the rim at the base of the shell is malformed, it could give the same result. I would expect, though, in those cases, the next round would be out of the magazine and trying to share the space with the spent casing.

why in the world would a shell have a "rearward movement"? seems to me like that only thing that oughta be coming backwards is the case and spent primer.

casing? ain't that what sausages are wrapped in? kind of think cartridges are made out of cases, not casings....mac

[sojourner truth]

Some of the issues I have had lately are failure to fire and failure to feed on my Llama 380..That was due to piss poor ammo. On my MP 15-22 it was failure to eject...which was due to using other than reccommended ammo. (It will act just fine with Federal 22LR, and some Winchester...anything else is a crap shoot). The web does have a fix for this problem that tells you to slightly bend the ejection prong out a bit, but that is also asking for trouble, so I just stick to buying the reccommended ammo.

My Rock river arsenal CAR 15 was having a lot of failure to feed problems that were due to some of the really shoddy "crunch time" el cheapo magazines that started showing up on the market...They had sharp edges on the top side of the mag that would dig into the cartridge case and freeze it up. The problem stopped when I went back to Tapco and other better mags.

My Rock River 1911 has had no problems with anything I feed it, or any magazines I have used so far.

I just got a pair of new mags for my M1A that were crap too, and I sent them back. They had the same sharp edges problem as my CAR mags did.

[mac]

i had to chuckle when i read your comments on magazines. when i was in Berlin i was able to score a dozen magazines for my uzi carbine SA 9mm........those things gave me more problems than i had ever thought possible.....so, here i am today with the same 2 magazines it came with and the dozen ddr ones buried near c h king strasse in west berlin.

btw guys, do we have any good stock builders in the area. i have a remington 600....actually, i have 2 of 'em, one in .243 and one in 6.5 and i'm thinking about having manlicher stocks put on one or maybe even both of 'em. any of you have any ideas or recommendations?. i've had stock work done in ft. worth and colorado springs but if we have good stock makers here, i'd rather stay local......mac


Some of the issues I have had lately are failure to fire and failure to feed on my Llama 380..That was due to piss poor ammo. On my MP 15-22 it was failure to eject...which was due to using other than reccommended ammo. (It will act just fine with Federal 22LR, and some Winchester...anything else is a crap shoot). The web does have a fix for this problem that tells you to slightly bend the ejection prong out a bit, but that is also asking for trouble, so I just stick to buying the reccommended ammo.

My Rock river arsenal CAR 15 was having a lot of failure to feed problems that were due to some of the really shoddy "crunch time" el cheapo magazines that started showing up on the market...They had sharp edges on the top side of the mag that would dig into the cartridge case and freeze it up. The problem stopped when I went back to Tapco and other better mags.

My Rock River 1911 has had no problems with anything I feed it, or any magazines I have used so far.

I just got a pair of new mags for my M1A that were crap too, and I sent them back. They had the same sharp edges problem as my CAR mags did.

[sojourner truth]

Not really...I had a good friend of mine make me a stock and all wood front/lower for my AK out of Cocoa burra wood (spelling is probably not right) and it is beautiful...Harder than woodpecker lips and shiny gloss beautiful is all I can say. But he moved to Geaorgetown, and I don't think he'd take on a project like that now.

I wouldn't drag it throught the bush any more, that's for sure.

[mac]

i was thinkin' 'bout using some kokabolo.....got plenty out in the shop......thanx, sojurner.....mac


Not really...I had a good friend of mine make me a stock and all wood front/lower for my AK out of Cocoa burra wood (spelling is probably not right) and it is beautiful...Harder than woodpecker lips and shiny gloss beautiful is all I can say. But he moved to Geaorgetown, and I don't think he'd take on a project like that now.

I wouldn't drag it throught the bush any more, that's for sure.

[sojourner truth]

It's a beautiful wood..But it is hard to work with. I was amazed that Scotty actually made the lower grip on the AK fit and function as well as he did. However you pronounce that wood, it is very pretty to look at, and it ain't cheap either.

Such asimply designed weapon.

On tha mags...during the crunch time on ammo and mags, a lot of "less than great " magazines were pumped out onto the market to fill demand. Big mistake when I snapped some up.

[Ludwig]

Wow! I have been given a treasure. A new gunsmith business in Lampasas. They do hot bluing, restorations,and repair; mounting and bore sighting of scopes for all firearm models. A friend of mine took his 1911 Springfield to have the trigger pull adjusted since he wants to use it for target shooting. The pull was about 6.5 lbs. going in to this shop and came out in just a couple of days at about 2.7 lbs. Not only did they adjust the trigger pull but reworked the weapon. He now has one sweet target weapon. They also make and repair stocks; my friend saw an M-1 carbine stock repaired better than new. I definitely have some business to bring to these two former US Army guys. The business is called "The Bolt and Trigger" and it is located at 6234 FM-1715 in Lampasas, ZIP 76550. Their phone is (512) 540-6060. They are "open" daily but hours vary so call first to confirm that they are at the shop and not at the range.

[rk103]

I have a question about revolvers, if anyone has much experience ...
I have a blued steel 357 that when I eject the shells spent they stick somewhat in the cylinder. Not badly, but I have to pick them out one by one, instead of just dumping them. The ejector pulls them about 3/4 of the way out, but that last half inch of metal on the shell casing is getting enough grip on the last half inch of cylinder to keep them in.

The gun has had 200 to 300 rounds (all 38+P) put through it. I have done a fairly good job cleaning the cylinder, and lube it a little with Rem Oil, but not enough to drip. Do I need to use more oil? A different kind of oil? Some kind of treatment? Really give the cylinder a scrubbing? Or is this just a drawback of blued steel, and I have to live with it?

You should not lubricate the cylinder. Clean it, then apply light coat of oil. Wipe off all oil on the surface, leaving a oiled, but not coated cylinder. A good rule of thumb is to only apply apply lubricants to moving pieces that have contact points. Unless of course its a .50 cal, just pour it on them. Also, the case could be the problem. Aluminum, steel and reloads swell easier.

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Wow! I have been given a treasure. A new gunsmith business in Lampasas. They do hot bluing, restorations,and repair; mounting and bore sighting of scopes for all firearm models. A friend of mine took his 1911 Springfield to have the trigger pull adjusted since he wants to use it for target shooting. The pull was about 6.5 lbs. going in to this shop and came out in just a couple of days at about 2.7 lbs. Not only did they adjust the trigger pull but reworked the weapon. He now has one sweet target weapon. They also make and repair stocks; my friend saw an M-1 carbine stock repaired better than new. I definitely have some business to bring to these two former US Army guys. The business is called "The Bolt and Trigger" and it is located at 6234 FM-1715 in Lampasas, ZIP 76550. Their phone is (512) 540-6060. They are "open" daily but hours vary so call first to confirm that they are at the shop and not at the range.

I've been using Chris' shop for about 6 months now. Good dude-quality work. I recommend him to everyone. But he's outta Kempner-a little closer to us ;) lol

[Mestral]

I've been using Chris' shop for about 6 months now. Good dude-quality work. I recommend him to everyone. But he's outta Kempner-a little closer to us ;) lolOn the map, Kempner, barely. Postal address, Lampassas. Go cross the river, and about a mile further, right turn where you see the little picture of Texas with 1715 in it. Ya see Bug Acres, ya gone too far.