Rick
March 26th, 2012, 6:11 PM
I found this in another topic. Without disclosing who posted this (even though some of you read the message after it was written). It was edited by the poster, but only after some people read it. (there is a software feature that allows me to see what was deleted). Before lies take center stage on the reason this user is banned, I am posting this for all to read and see my responses.
This user has been disrupting the forum and acting like a victim because several people here have grown tired of his constant spamming the forum with junk email and internat garbage. When asked to stop, he got defiant. I put him into moderation for a couple of days, then allowed him back with full access, then he continued to do the same and lash out at me throughout the forum to include incessantly ranting against me in a health topic. When I hadn't objected to anything he had posted.
CANDIDATE FORUM CENSORSHIP
RICK:
Yes, CTT is your property, but it is also public because you made it public. Legally, you set it up that way and advertise it as such. Hence, anyone can join CTT, without restrictions, provided they agree to comply with the written established rules of the forum. You actively solicit membership in CTT. In that sense it is a business like any other business.
It is against the law for any business to discriminate on membership if it is otherwise open to the public. Private clubs such as the masons, the Lions Club, the Knights of Columbus, veteran’s organization, etc. etc, can limit membership. If CTT were a club of sorts, or a forum set up expressly for a group of people like a women’s forum for women issues, medical forums for medical issues, support forums of various support groups, etc. etc., then membership could legally be limited to members meeting those criteria. But, that is not how you set up CTT. You call it CenTexTalk.com but you don’t even limit admittance to residents of Central Texas. You created an open public forum albeit privately owned.
I think their is a legal question whether or not you can set up a public forum and arbitrarily censor legitimate questions asked in a thread set up for the express purpose of asking those types of questions. To do so arbitrarily, when no posted rules were violated in asking those questions, is by its very nature “discriminatory.”
I posted 10 questions in each of the candidate’s forums. Not a single one of those questions violated any posted rules. The fact that you may personally not have liked the question is immaterial. Frankly, it’s none of your business unless the question violates a written rule and provided said rules are uniformly enforced in your privately owned pubic forum. Moreover, if you prefer that I not ask a question or participate in a specific thread, for whatever reason, that counts as your desire but not your dictate. To impose such a requirement on me alone, and no one else, is without question discriminatory.
If you want teacher forums open only to teachers then you must specify that and make it applicable and enforceable to everyone. There is also a legal question whether you can have such a closed forum in an otherwise open forum. I think if you check you would have to set up a separate forum outside CTT to do that. Likewise, if you don’t want people who live outside Killeen to post in any Killeen forum you would have to do the same thing. There are no standing rules prohibiting any member of CTT from posting in any established thread. It is a against the law to discriminate, even in a privately owned public forum. The law doesn’t care if you personally dislike someone or not. If you own a business you still can’t single them out and discriminate against them in that business.
Let me give you an example. There is a case being adjudicated in with Facebook that I read or head about a month or so ago, I can’t recall when or specifically where I heard about it. Anyway, in an open media discussion group on Facebook (privately owned at the time) the discussion group administrator arbitrarily deleted select political posts because the discussion board administrator didn’t agree with the posts. No standing rules were violated. It was an arbitrary deletion. The lawsuit denotes selectively censorship in violation of a persons first amendment rights. The legal question at issue is “can a privately owned internet discussion boards, that are open to the public, censor posts if those posts violate no rules? Does that constitute a violation of the public’s first amendment rights? “ How do you think this case will be decided? I think Facebook and the discussion group administrator are going to end up doling out a lot of money in that lawsuit. Even if it is settled out of court the costs win likely be substantial. When you censor you misrepresent the person you censor. It can embarrass them, cause them harm or deny them equal access and resolution that is otherwise afforded by the private business to the general public.
When you have a privately owned public forum that the general public has access to, and you arbitrarily censor individual posts, you can cause the same kinds of damages to the individual as if the forum were publically owned. There is no difference in that regard. Those damages can include misrepresentation of facts, damage to reputation, denial of resolution afforded to other members, denial of first AMemendment rights, equal and fair access, discrimination, etc. etc. Our constitutional right are no joke.
I posted 10 questions in each of the candidate’s forums that YOU set up in CTT for the express purpose of allowing CTT members to ask questions of candidates. None of my questions violated any rule in the CTT forum. All were legitimate questions and none were defamatory or incendiary. You may not have liked the questions, which is your prerogative. You may have disagreed with the questions, which’s your prerogative. You may not like the fact that I personally asked the questions, which is again your prerogative. But you had no right to censor my questions. You or another CTT administrator that you appointed deleted 80% of my questions. That is crystal clear censorship and I think, given the aforementioned, that it is also unlawful.
If you went to Applebee’s, Sears, a medical clinc, or any privately owned business for what ever reason, as the proprietor you would still be prohibited by law from discriminating who can go to your place of business, if it is otherwise open to the general public. That means anyone can shop or sit in your place of business, participate in what your business has to offer, or sit, and speak in your place of business unless you can prove that they are being disruptive, based on general public standards (not your own opinion) or if they are in violation of a published rules or law. Your privately owned pubic forum most also abide by the law and it doesn’t matter if you personally dislike any particular patron/customer.
I deeply object to your censoring/deleting my questions. I challenge your legal right to do so even if you are the owner of CTT. I say this especially since my questions did not violate any published forum rule. I contend that you are now asserting yourself in an unlawful, arbitrary and discriminatory manner in the way that you are now running CTT. Moreover, I contend that you are discriminating and unlawfully singling me out for this injustice. I’m tired of this and I want you to please stop it. It wrongs. It’s unfair, it’s embarrassing, it’s hurtful and it needs to stop now.
I herewith ask you to cease and desist. Stop it. Don’t arbitrarily censor my posts. Enforce your rules fairly and uniformly on everyone, without exception. Don’t discriminate. Understand that even as the owner and administrator of CTT you still have legal obligations. You cannot discriminate in your business and you cannot violate anyone’s civil or constitutional rights, whether it be done indiscriminately or purposefully applied to any single individual. You run a business, not a dictatorship.
One final point rick, This is not me whining. This is me pissed of. I can afford a lawyer.
I never said a word about the questions he asked in the candidate forums. In fact, I have not yet read them and certainly have not censored them. I have been very busy with my life lately and have not had time.
Here's a FACT, this person does not have access to my database which includes all messages that were soft deleted or the edited message records, therefore, he does not know how many deletions or other acts of moderation take place here on a daily basis. Just because it happened to him, he wants to scream that he is some sort of a victim with all that crybaby BS.
I checked the moderation log and there has not been a single moderator edit or deletion of your multiple questioning posts. The only edits that were done to them was done by him.
As I have stated in the past to other people who made the same claim regarding First Amendment rights, (so much for discrimination by the way) I do not owe him any of his rights, nor do I have the power to deny him any rights. I do have the right to moderate as I see fit.
Now that this user has threatened me with legal action and the fact that he repeatedly violated rule #9 in the past few days, he will no longer have access to this forum.
• Rule 9: Criticism and "bashing" or rebelling against administrators and moderators is not permitted to be done in public. Every one of CenTexTalk.com’s Administration and Moderating team are volunteers who spend countless hours working to provide a friendly, well flowing forum and like all members here, they are not to be verbally abused in any way. If you have an issue with a staff member or their decisions, please discuss it with them through email or private messages. NOT ON THE OPEN FORUM.
Do not carry disputes with administrators or moderators to other areas of the forum, to include, but not limited to, the Shoutbox (chat room), Avatars, Signatures, the User’s Status. Doing so will cause a loss of those features.
Violations of the rules listed above will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Some of the tools at our disposal for dealing with disruptive users and rules violations are. (These methods are used at our discretion)
o Editing the portion of the message that violates the rules.
o Deleting the message that violates the rules.
o Reducing disruptive users access to forum features.
o Moderating the user who continually violates the rules.
o Blocking the user from forums where they are most disruptive.
o Temporary banning the disruptive user.
o Permanently banning the user.
This user has been disrupting the forum and acting like a victim because several people here have grown tired of his constant spamming the forum with junk email and internat garbage. When asked to stop, he got defiant. I put him into moderation for a couple of days, then allowed him back with full access, then he continued to do the same and lash out at me throughout the forum to include incessantly ranting against me in a health topic. When I hadn't objected to anything he had posted.
CANDIDATE FORUM CENSORSHIP
RICK:
Yes, CTT is your property, but it is also public because you made it public. Legally, you set it up that way and advertise it as such. Hence, anyone can join CTT, without restrictions, provided they agree to comply with the written established rules of the forum. You actively solicit membership in CTT. In that sense it is a business like any other business.
It is against the law for any business to discriminate on membership if it is otherwise open to the public. Private clubs such as the masons, the Lions Club, the Knights of Columbus, veteran’s organization, etc. etc, can limit membership. If CTT were a club of sorts, or a forum set up expressly for a group of people like a women’s forum for women issues, medical forums for medical issues, support forums of various support groups, etc. etc., then membership could legally be limited to members meeting those criteria. But, that is not how you set up CTT. You call it CenTexTalk.com but you don’t even limit admittance to residents of Central Texas. You created an open public forum albeit privately owned.
I think their is a legal question whether or not you can set up a public forum and arbitrarily censor legitimate questions asked in a thread set up for the express purpose of asking those types of questions. To do so arbitrarily, when no posted rules were violated in asking those questions, is by its very nature “discriminatory.”
I posted 10 questions in each of the candidate’s forums. Not a single one of those questions violated any posted rules. The fact that you may personally not have liked the question is immaterial. Frankly, it’s none of your business unless the question violates a written rule and provided said rules are uniformly enforced in your privately owned pubic forum. Moreover, if you prefer that I not ask a question or participate in a specific thread, for whatever reason, that counts as your desire but not your dictate. To impose such a requirement on me alone, and no one else, is without question discriminatory.
If you want teacher forums open only to teachers then you must specify that and make it applicable and enforceable to everyone. There is also a legal question whether you can have such a closed forum in an otherwise open forum. I think if you check you would have to set up a separate forum outside CTT to do that. Likewise, if you don’t want people who live outside Killeen to post in any Killeen forum you would have to do the same thing. There are no standing rules prohibiting any member of CTT from posting in any established thread. It is a against the law to discriminate, even in a privately owned public forum. The law doesn’t care if you personally dislike someone or not. If you own a business you still can’t single them out and discriminate against them in that business.
Let me give you an example. There is a case being adjudicated in with Facebook that I read or head about a month or so ago, I can’t recall when or specifically where I heard about it. Anyway, in an open media discussion group on Facebook (privately owned at the time) the discussion group administrator arbitrarily deleted select political posts because the discussion board administrator didn’t agree with the posts. No standing rules were violated. It was an arbitrary deletion. The lawsuit denotes selectively censorship in violation of a persons first amendment rights. The legal question at issue is “can a privately owned internet discussion boards, that are open to the public, censor posts if those posts violate no rules? Does that constitute a violation of the public’s first amendment rights? “ How do you think this case will be decided? I think Facebook and the discussion group administrator are going to end up doling out a lot of money in that lawsuit. Even if it is settled out of court the costs win likely be substantial. When you censor you misrepresent the person you censor. It can embarrass them, cause them harm or deny them equal access and resolution that is otherwise afforded by the private business to the general public.
When you have a privately owned public forum that the general public has access to, and you arbitrarily censor individual posts, you can cause the same kinds of damages to the individual as if the forum were publically owned. There is no difference in that regard. Those damages can include misrepresentation of facts, damage to reputation, denial of resolution afforded to other members, denial of first AMemendment rights, equal and fair access, discrimination, etc. etc. Our constitutional right are no joke.
I posted 10 questions in each of the candidate’s forums that YOU set up in CTT for the express purpose of allowing CTT members to ask questions of candidates. None of my questions violated any rule in the CTT forum. All were legitimate questions and none were defamatory or incendiary. You may not have liked the questions, which is your prerogative. You may have disagreed with the questions, which’s your prerogative. You may not like the fact that I personally asked the questions, which is again your prerogative. But you had no right to censor my questions. You or another CTT administrator that you appointed deleted 80% of my questions. That is crystal clear censorship and I think, given the aforementioned, that it is also unlawful.
If you went to Applebee’s, Sears, a medical clinc, or any privately owned business for what ever reason, as the proprietor you would still be prohibited by law from discriminating who can go to your place of business, if it is otherwise open to the general public. That means anyone can shop or sit in your place of business, participate in what your business has to offer, or sit, and speak in your place of business unless you can prove that they are being disruptive, based on general public standards (not your own opinion) or if they are in violation of a published rules or law. Your privately owned pubic forum most also abide by the law and it doesn’t matter if you personally dislike any particular patron/customer.
I deeply object to your censoring/deleting my questions. I challenge your legal right to do so even if you are the owner of CTT. I say this especially since my questions did not violate any published forum rule. I contend that you are now asserting yourself in an unlawful, arbitrary and discriminatory manner in the way that you are now running CTT. Moreover, I contend that you are discriminating and unlawfully singling me out for this injustice. I’m tired of this and I want you to please stop it. It wrongs. It’s unfair, it’s embarrassing, it’s hurtful and it needs to stop now.
I herewith ask you to cease and desist. Stop it. Don’t arbitrarily censor my posts. Enforce your rules fairly and uniformly on everyone, without exception. Don’t discriminate. Understand that even as the owner and administrator of CTT you still have legal obligations. You cannot discriminate in your business and you cannot violate anyone’s civil or constitutional rights, whether it be done indiscriminately or purposefully applied to any single individual. You run a business, not a dictatorship.
One final point rick, This is not me whining. This is me pissed of. I can afford a lawyer.
I never said a word about the questions he asked in the candidate forums. In fact, I have not yet read them and certainly have not censored them. I have been very busy with my life lately and have not had time.
Here's a FACT, this person does not have access to my database which includes all messages that were soft deleted or the edited message records, therefore, he does not know how many deletions or other acts of moderation take place here on a daily basis. Just because it happened to him, he wants to scream that he is some sort of a victim with all that crybaby BS.
I checked the moderation log and there has not been a single moderator edit or deletion of your multiple questioning posts. The only edits that were done to them was done by him.
As I have stated in the past to other people who made the same claim regarding First Amendment rights, (so much for discrimination by the way) I do not owe him any of his rights, nor do I have the power to deny him any rights. I do have the right to moderate as I see fit.
Now that this user has threatened me with legal action and the fact that he repeatedly violated rule #9 in the past few days, he will no longer have access to this forum.
• Rule 9: Criticism and "bashing" or rebelling against administrators and moderators is not permitted to be done in public. Every one of CenTexTalk.com’s Administration and Moderating team are volunteers who spend countless hours working to provide a friendly, well flowing forum and like all members here, they are not to be verbally abused in any way. If you have an issue with a staff member or their decisions, please discuss it with them through email or private messages. NOT ON THE OPEN FORUM.
Do not carry disputes with administrators or moderators to other areas of the forum, to include, but not limited to, the Shoutbox (chat room), Avatars, Signatures, the User’s Status. Doing so will cause a loss of those features.
Violations of the rules listed above will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Some of the tools at our disposal for dealing with disruptive users and rules violations are. (These methods are used at our discretion)
o Editing the portion of the message that violates the rules.
o Deleting the message that violates the rules.
o Reducing disruptive users access to forum features.
o Moderating the user who continually violates the rules.
o Blocking the user from forums where they are most disruptive.
o Temporary banning the disruptive user.
o Permanently banning the user.