Penn State

[Ludwig]

The silence is deafening. I guess pedophilia is exciting only when accusations/arrests are about Catholic priests.

[kantwin]

Or people just don't give a ####e.
But, good job jumping to conclusions.

[Night Owl]

Yeppers, you are right. It wasn't about priests so no one cares, except you. Hows that working out for you? Trying to make an excuse for priests by pointing out others do it also. I thought you heald priests to a higher standard than a coach. I know I do. :doh

[Ludwig]

No, I make no excuse for anyone, priest or lay person. I just find it curious that there is no outrage unless it is a Catholic a priest who is accused. No, I do not hold priests to a higher standard, neither do I hold bishops or even the pope to a higher standard. I understand that all human beings are capable for falling short. IMO, to hold anyone to a higher standard is a gross disservice to that person.

[xzochye]

The silence is deafening. I guess pedophilia is exciting only when accusations/arrests are about Catholic priests.

What are you even talking about? The title is about Penn State the section is football and you are going off about pedophilia and priests.

[Ludwig]

What are you even talking about? ...

One ought not depend on CTT for all the news.

Just so you know, Penn State former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky has been charged by a Grand Jury with allegedly engaged in fondling, oral and anal sex with young boys over a period of more than 10 years, according to an investigative. He maintains he is innocent. Also named in the state grand jury report are Penn State Athletic Director Timothy Curley, 57, and Gary Schultz, 62, the university's senior vice president for finance and business. They face one count of perjury each in connection to an alleged cover-up of the abuse.

[xzochye]

Why of course I should depend on CTT! How dare you suggest otherwise.

Anyways I was busy at work all day and didn't have time to look at the news. When I came home I came here and saw your heading and then a message that didn't match. You should have at least posted a link to the news story!

And yes I do believe that a priest bishop and whoever else calls themselves a man of the clothe should be held to higher expectations.

[Rick]

I happen to think that anyone, regardless of what they are called, be it priest, or coach, if they are trusted with kids, should be held to a higher standard. Ruining a kids life means that child's life is ruined and I don't have much respect for anyone who would use this sad story as an opportunity to try to score some kind of debate points.

I didn't buy Paterno's statement. In 2002, an assistant reported to Paterno that he saw this punk "performing" in the shower and all Paterno does it report it to the athletic director. No one thought to call the police?

Sorry Paterno has to go out like this, but to claim that he spent his life helping kids, then turns his back on this, negates everything.

[corgifan]

The silence is deafening. I guess pedophilia is exciting only when accusations/arrests are about Catholic priests.
What do you mean "silence?" It's all over the internet news sites.

[CenTexDave]

Truly sad. I'm not a Penn State fan, but Joe Paterno is a legend and, while not implicated in this, will undoubtedly take heat for it.

[JoAnn Purser]

I just find it hard to believe Curley and Schultz aided him in any way. Why would someone risk their livelyhoods like that? Not for friendship.

I have lots of friends but no one that I would sacrifice so much for. Is there a chance they participated in some way? Photos maybe? Why would you help someone like this except for some gain or pleasure?

So many young innocent lives ruined by the very programs that should help and reward. Athletics. All coaches and staff members should guard and protect this from ever happening again and if it is currently happening in their program give these creeps up NOW!

[Grammar Rules]

Yesterday was a big news day for the pop-news-crew: Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted, the Dragon Lady, Gloria Allred crawled out of her den with another woman claiming improper behavior by Herman Cain, and during all that screaming hype, this story began to come out.

Actually, there was a vague report on 11/6 about a coach at Penn accused of abuse, but I assumed it was some punishment or hazing issue. With a college coach, you don't automatically think of 10 yr olds.

Then I read it on line at CNN during my lunch break; later KLBJ radio was all over it during evening drive time; and today it's on the news networks and in the papers.

It was handled the same way the Episcopal School of Dallas handled a teacher/student relationship (discussed on CTT recently), which is that everyone who had a chance to put a stop to this coach or ex-coach's pedophelia chose to circle the wagons and protect the institution. Who knows how many children could have been safe if anyone at Penn had spoken up and NOT let it go? Disgusting.

[mac]

i definitly hold/held soldiers to a higher standard, even more so their non-commissioned officers.....and i don't consider that doing those folks any disservice what so ever....mac


No, I make no excuse for anyone, priest or lay person. I just find it curious that there is no outrage unless it is a Catholic a priest who is accused. No, I do not hold priests to a higher standard, neither do I hold bishops or even the pope to a higher standard. I understand that all human beings are capable for falling short. IMO, to hold anyone to a higher standard is a gross disservice to that person.

[Diz]

I think I have to hold these people to a higher standard. For one, the man that did this was in a position of trust. He was supposed to be helping these children and yet he abused them. Secondly, Paterno is a very powerful, well known man so anything he came forward about would have been investigated if he had been forthcoming with the police.
It makes me sick to think that his excuse was that the assistant that came forward "was distraught … but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the grand jury report."

So, basically it's ok when he just thought he had fondled and showered with a ten yr old but Lord help him now that you know he did more. Seriously?! What a peice of trash to have not come forward to some type of law enforcement. That's what, 9 more years he had free to do this to others?....

And that's just saying I actually believed him. According to the grad assistant he did tell him he saw what he thought was anal intercourse. Guess he just forgot that part?:cowdung

[CenTexDave]

JoePa will be gone after this season. Will be interesting to see how his current team responds. They are currently 8-1 and atop their division in the Big Ten. Personally, I think they will lose their next three games, finish at 8-4, get an invitation to some second tier bowl game and get blasted in that one also.

[Night Owl]

We can only hope. He should have retired 10 years ago. Its all about ego.

[CenTexDave]

He wanted the all-time win record. Eddie Robinson, former Grambling coach, held it and JoePa and Bobby Bowden at Florida State both wanted it. Bowden finally retired (most think he was told to retire or would be fired) so Paterno kept at it. He's had some great teams and ran a good, clean program until this hit.
Faretheewell, JoePa.

[gnatsum]

I was in a store today that had a cable news network on a TV near the cash register. Don't recall what channel it was on, but they were discussing the Penn State situation.
One of the talking heads (didn't recognize him, and don't know if he was a star of the show or a guest) flatly laid out what went wrong in his observation "If I see an adult having sex or attempting to have sex with a minor, the FIRST person I'm going to call is NOT the person in charge of the building I saw the act in, but THE POLICE! We wouldn't be here today talking about this if that student assistant had called the cops first, THEN Coach Paterno!"

JoePa also should've at least followed up on his report to the Athletic Director, to see what was going to be done. Plausible deniability can only go so far....

[onetime]

With so many variables to this story it is difficult to levy an opinion on what should have been done. Personally, and I may stand alone, if I see a man having sex with a child reporting it would be the last thing I would do. The first thing I would do would like be to grab whatever I could find and take upside the head of the perpetuator. What a vile and sick thing to do to somebody, if you have not read the transcripts of the case then you should check it out. After trying to destroy this piece of sh** I would then report what occurred and then what I did in a fit of blind rage. Now if it were my own kid, that would likely end with a homicide or castration.

[Grammar Rules]

I completely agree. It's reported that pedophiles are disdained in prisons by the other convicts. And these wealthy professional coaches and staff were concerned only with institutional self preservation? It's shameful that their morals are lower than those of criminals.

[Night Owl]

Penn State was trying to protect the legacy of JoePa and nothing else. He is an icon for college football and they could not let an icon fall. The result is what is happening today. JoePa should do the right thing and resign effective immediately.

[CenTexDave]

Yep, announced he will retire at the end of this season.
The is the same thing Ohio State did - trying to protect Jim Tressel at first until it became obvious they could not shield him anymore.
In both cases - the "loyal" universities then threw the two under the bus.

[Night Owl]

Who does the university have loyality to? A football coach that abused children? Probably not where loyality should lie.

[mac]

universities, corporations, nations, dogs, cats and political parties do NOT have and CAN'T have any loyalty....to anybody.....to anything. they only have "current and long term interests"....mac


Who does the university have loyality to? A football coach that abused children? Probably not where loyality should lie.

[jimbob]

JoePa reported the information. We don't know the rest of the story yet. dosesn't sound like he covered the story up.

[Night Owl]

But he didn't follow through either. Put yourself in JoePa position. I would have called the police in a heartbeat. Let them do their job, but that would have tarished his rep. What would you have done?

[Grammar Rules]

No, I make no excuse for anyone, priest or lay person. I just find it curious that there is no outrage unless it is a Catholic a priest who is accused. No, I do not hold priests to a higher standard, neither do I hold bishops or even the pope to a higher standard. I understand that all human beings are capable for falling short. IMO, to hold anyone to a higher standard is a gross disservice to that person.

Is there sufficient outrage now for ya?

[gnatsum]

Something I heard on a sports talk show today--according to one of the hosts, IF it looks like Penn State SHOVED JoePa out the door without giving him a chance to resign, then the Penn State alumni and boosters will DROP THEIR support of the university, and the school could potentially lose out on MILLIONS of dollars that could've been used to further Penn State's academic and athletic goals.

Read USA Today today. The front page Sports story claimed that the UNIVERSITY cancelled the press conference that Paterno was scheduled to tell his side of the story, leaving him without an "official" venue to tell it, YET there was a columnist inside the Sports section that stated that JoePa HIMSELF cancelled the press conference. Which was it?

[Rick]

Yep, announced he will retire at the end of this season.
The is the same thing Ohio State did - trying to protect Jim Tressel at first until it became obvious they could not shield him anymore.
In both cases - the "loyal" universities then threw the two under the bus.
Apples to oranges. Comparing what happened at Ohio State doesn't even come close to the tragedy at Penn State. OSU players sold and traded **** they own for tattoos and petty cash and Tressel tried to cover it up. He shouldn't have. Very fitting that he is with the (0-everything) Colts now. But in the end, no one got hurt.

What happened at Penn State ruined lives of innocent children.

Paterno admitted that all he did was report it to the two who are indicted for covering it up. For some reason, that was all he was required by law to do. He had a moral obligation to do more.

We ALL would have a moral obligation to do more.

[xzochye]

The Penn State Board of Trustees has voted to fire historic football coach Joe Paterno effective tonight.
That is from KXXV's facebook page

[Rick]

Yep! Wow!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57321984/paterno-fired-over-penn-st-child-abuse-scandal/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57321984/paterno-fired-over-penn-st-child-abuse-scandal/)

[Night Owl]

Penn State is trying to cover their 4th point of contact and FINALLY did the right thing. I have never been a JoePa fan. But this is sad for the kids involved that are going through this because this man didn't do the right thing. He was more concerned for his legecy and now he will always be remember for this.

[xzochye]

My son is watching ESPN right now and they are reporting some rioting going on right now in support of him.

[Rick]

The reporter said that they are just there. Looking shocked and that it is absolutely quiet. I hope there isn't any violence. They need to band together for the kids who were harmed. This isn't about football anymore.

[FieryPrincess]

In the article I read, it sounds as if Paterno reported up his chain of command and followed the legal letter of the law. He didn't witness anything happening and by reporting, it should have been investigated to discern the veracity of the complaint. The people should have been fired/arrested/etc Paterno reported what was reported to him. He didn't cover it up or hide it and as a coach, he didn't have the investigative authority to carry an allegation this strong to its end.

The university is full-on damage control mode. I don't think their decision was a wise one, but was probably a legally neccesary one. Look how the court of public opinion has already reacted.

I agree with the poster that stated that if they had witnessed a man assaulting a boy sexually that they would have gone after the man with a stick (paraphrasing). I do not agree with the people calling for his head that say he should have done more. There is a system for a reason. Fix the system if it is broken. In this case, I think it was more of a matter of the system not getting used. It is easy to look back and say what should have happened. Sure is hell when you can't trust the people above you on the chain to do the right thing.

[CenTexDave]

They should have let him just retire at the end of the season.
The PSU Board of Trustees is just worried about a bunch of lawsuits now being filed.

[Agent X]

The more you read about the Penn State situation it makes one wonder if they should have a self-imposed death penalty for their football program. Apparently, this Sandusky creep was hanging out in the locker room as recently as last week. You can't tell me that his activity and tendencies were not fodder for gossip all over that town. I just don't know how anyone associated with this program is not tarnished to some extent.

[Diz]

I have foster children and & I know what abuse does to a child. Anyone that thinks he did "enough" is just wrong. I'm sure there were plenty of people that knew my kids were being hurt too and never said a word. Now I get to see the aftermath of that. Just because you do not have a legal obligation to do something does not make you any less responsible if you stand by while it happens.
He doesn't just deserve to be fired; he should have to spend time with these kids and explain to them why he never tried to help make it stop.

[Night Owl]

And he still allowed the scumbag the use of the stadium for the last 12 years. Something ain't smelling right.

[mac]

i think you're right. i told ursula yestereday at around noon that there were more shoes to be dropped...and then paterno got fired last night and it makes me look like a genius......i just hope that we know the worst about paterno....mac

[taxpayer]

going on since 2002 ,fired

[Rick]

The interim coach has been on the coaching staff since 1979. Does anyone think he didn't know what was going on as well?

[Night Owl]

I think he does, if not he doesn't deserve to be a coach. From what I have read this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot more waiting to be discovered.

[FieryPrincess]

I have decided that what bugs me most about all the press on Paterno is that it is taking spotlight away from Sandusky - the true criminal here.


My husband stated that everyone who knew anything about it ought to be fired if that's the way they want to go. I tend to agree.

[Rick]

Ya, but they are trying to save their season. They believe that they have a better than average chance of going to the Rose Bowl and that's worth millions and that's all that matters in professional college sports.

I thought I heard Jeff Ward say that Sandusky took a kid to the Alamo Bowl and he stayed in his room.

I think the entire athletic department should be shuttered until this is sorted out.

[gnatsum]

One radio show alleged yesterday that the local District Attorney near Penn State had enough evidence to put Sandusky away in 1998...but chose NOT TO!!
One could ask him why...if they knew where HE is today!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/
I used to think that DAs did nothing but go after 'especially heinous' cases, the higher profile the better. If Gricar had even ATTEMPTED to try Sandusky on the child rape charges, we wouldn't be here today discussing the firing of JoePa!

[Grammar Rules]

Ya, but they are trying to save their season. They believe that they have a better than average chance of going to the Rose Bowl and that's worth millions and that's all that matters in professional college sports.

I thought I heard Jeff Ward say that Sandusky took a kid to the Alamo Bowl and he stayed in his room.

I think the entire athletic department should be shuttered until this is sorted out.

I heard him say exactly that about the Alamo Bowl. Jeff Ward read the whole indictment, but I haven't gotten up the courage yet. Several people reportedly saw Sandusky showering with boys over the years, and at the high school where he took some of the troubled kids, he claimed to be wrestling with boys when seen in --I guess -- a position. There are no excuses for anyone looking the other way even once.

[Night Owl]

One radio show alleged yesterday that the local District Attorney near Penn State had enough evidence to put Sandusky away in 1998...but chose NOT TO!!
One could ask him why...if they knew where HE is today!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/
I used to think that DAs did nothing but go after 'especially heinous' cases, the higher profile the better. If Gricar had even ATTEMPTED to try Sandusky on the child rape charges, we wouldn't be here today discussing the firing of JoePa!

I think I remember that the DA would had the case disappeared in 2005 and hasn't been seen since. Wonder where he or his body is?

[Brad Buckley, D.V.M.]

A link to a good column about the Penn State mess:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/10/3517198/jail-time-could-be-joepas-legacy.html

Randy Galloway makes some good points about Paterno's culpability and potential criminal liability.

[Rick]

Yep, what on earth were they thinking?

What about federal charges? Does taking kids across state lines make it a federal crime? Can Texas and other states they traveled to go after them?

[Rick]

I say that the game should not have been played, but it looks like the players on both teams get it. Too bad the Penn State adults didn't.
2009

[JoAnn Purser]

Where is Sandusky's wife in all this? What did she know?

Is she in shock or in complete denial?

[dawglover]

The silence is deafening. I guess pedophilia is exciting only when accusations/arrests are about Catholic priests.

I don’t think the silence has been defending. I think this story has been all over the air waves. It's a huge scandal. Here's my take:

I'm sorry that the legacy of Joe Paterno has to end in disaster but so be it. He had plenty of accolades, adoration, and mega bucks when things went well. I'm far more sorry for the young boys that this pedophile monster of a coach, Paterno's defensive coordinator (Coach Sandusky), had free reign to destroy the lives of. I'm appalled, disgusted, angry and deeply saddened by this. As far as I am concerned, throw the book at anyone who did this or knew about it but did not immediately act in the best interest of the boys who were being harmed.

As far as the grad assistant who witnessed it and only reported it to Paterno, what the hell is wrong with that guy? You watch that pig sodomize a 10-year old and walk away to tell the head coach? He witnessed child sexual molestation – child rape and walked away? Are you ####ing me? He should have jumped that pedophile pig, pounded his head in the shower tiles if need be, and saved the kid. Then he should have immediately reported filthy pedophile pig to the police. This whole thing stinks to high heaven and heads should role. No mercy!

If Joe Paterno knew the facts and didn’t go to the police, then at the very least his legacy as a coach should be in a shambles. This trumps anything he ever did that was great as a coach. I know the jury is still out and we don’t know all the facts yet, but if it turns out that this is what happened, then this is how I feel about it. No mercy on any pedophile - ever, ever, ever, or to those who knowingly accommodate them.

[mac]

i agree with dawg, completely, on this one. it's hard for me to believe that that red headed guy actually walked by the shower, saw the kid being sodomized and didn't take the guys head off, instead decided he'd tell the coach about it the next day. what the hell kind of man is that? i understand he's in hiding....mac

[FieryPrincess]

As a teacher if you don't report such things to CPS within 48 hours you can lose your lteaching certificate.

[mac]

Unless that "CPS" means "city police station", there's something wrong with that. if you were to walk by a student being raped, molested or abused in a bathroom at your school tomorrow, you should try to stop it and immediately call 911......i still can't get it out of my mind that this big strong red headed coach walked by as this little boy was being raped and did not stop the rape, take the guys head off, and call 911....on the spot. i'm being told now by folks that prob'ly know (my kids 2 of whom are faculty at notre dame and perdue,l that he'd've been fired or let go if he done that".....and i'm afraid they may be right and that their old man has lost touch with things....mac


As a teacher if you don't report such things to CPS within 48 hours you can lose your lteaching certificate.

[JoAnn Purser]

Where is Sandusky's wife in all this? What did she know?

Is she in shock or in complete denial?

Why did Sandusky's wife not help? Victim 'screamed knowing she was upstairs'... as disgraced coach is hauled away in cuffs following new sex abuse claims


Here it comes. Looks like they will go after her and I bet they charge her with a crime. Then let her off in exchange for her testimony. Only way to get her to testify against a spouse.

[Diz]

Why did Sandusky's wife not help? Victim 'screamed knowing she was upstairs'... as disgraced coach is hauled away in cuffs following new sex abuse claims


Here it comes. Looks like they will go after her and I bet they charge her with a crime. Then let her off in exchange for her testimony. Only way to get her to testify against a spouse.

I heard that this morning. It is sickening to think she knew what was going on in that basement and just stood by and let it happen.

[JoAnn Purser]

'Sandusky was just teaching them basic hygiene skills': Lawyer attempts to explain why shamed Penn State coach showered with boys.

He has got to be kidding.

[Night Owl]

He will say anything to not go to jail. He will become someone's boy toy.

[JoAnn Purser]

Joe Paterno 'delayed forwarding report of Sandusky sex abuse because he didn't want to ruin the weekend'



Unbelievable! I know there is a generational and professional group of people that feel no urgency to react to information, but this beats all. I understand that protocol forces certain positions to not have the ability to punish or report but this makes me angry. I have always been of the type to react and that is probably the detriment of me. I probably would have lost my job and been barred from certain organizations but many children's lives have been ruined.

What price is a career? I will never understand that process.