Ouch! The Truth Hurts!

[Ludwig]

Recently, Planned Parenthood received a major blow in their attempt to be seen as the end-all, be-all in reducing unintended pregnancies, funded by you the taxpayer. This time, the hit came in an analysis from their close allies at the Guttmacher Institute.

It happened when Guttmacher studied the rate of unintended pregnancies from 2001-2006. Guttmacher concluded that increased government funding for Planned Parenthood has made ZERO impact on decreasing the unintended pregnancy rate across the nation. Yes, you read that right, ZERO. It gets even more alarming. They found the pregnancy rate for poor women jumped by over 50%. It’s appalling.

More at: http://www.lifeissues.org/pdf/GuttmacherReportShowsPP.pdf

[THEMEANOGRE]

Well, if their federal funding is TIED to showing a decline in uninteneded pregnancies, then I say cut their funding. Then IF they get their act together and CAN show their work as being effective, then CONSIDER allowing them to reapply for funding. I oppose forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, but I won't fund an unproductive well, either.
There are other venues for the services PP provides.
Something that always should've been a part of their services was a limit on the number of procedures that PP would perform on a woman. That AND mandatory counselling on how to prevent future occurences.

[mac]

MO: do you think all of us should pay to terminate these pregnancies (or as you say not to carry to term)....do you think that those of us who disagree with you should still have to pony up our hard earned money in order to "terminate" this unborn's chance at a full life or do you think it would be more appropriate that only those of you who are ok with it to fund this procedure? i'm just curious....i've never understood how those of you who are ok with abortions are able to translate that, carry it a step further into mandating that those of us who are against it must never the less support it with our taxes.....mac

[bbh]

I agree with you, mac. I can't stand the fact that my tax $$$ go toward ending the life of an unborn child.

We can't have a prayer at a football game because someone might be offended, but the government can snatch my hard-earned dollars and use them for something that I feel is morally wrong. My only option is to vote for candidates who will end that and to convince as many others as I can to do the same.

[corgifan]

I can agree with this line of thought. I would agree with private funding for planned parenthood and abortion clinics to keep those who want no part of it to opt out.
Credit due to Ludwig for providing data from a report which was generated by a non-profit, non-biased group rather than one slanted far in the direction of his political philosophy.

[THEMEANOGRE]

Mac, BBH, you have no clue, do you? I do NOT support abortion. I find it at least as abhorant as you. Having said that, I also, refuse to push that view on others.
Abortion became legal across this land because while it was unlawful in many places in this country, it still happened. Many women went to back alley practitioners, where the procedure was done in gutter conditions or worse. Many, far too many, developed infections or other complications. Far too many died. It became legal so that women could have such a procedure done with a modicum of surety they'd survive the experience. It was never intended that it should become an easily available form of retroactive birth control. I believe the federal dollars given to PP are required to be used for their educational programs. PP is heavily audited to assure this. Can the books be rigged to hide this? Sure, they can. But, when they get caught, those caught catch the full load.

[Night Owl]

Mac and bbh aren't the ones that don't have a CLUE.

[corgifan]

I've asked this question before. Go ahead and repeal abortion rights. What will be done about the explosion of illegitimate unwanted black and Hispanic babies that will be born? Is welfare going to be repealed too?

[corgifan]

Mac and bbh aren't the ones that don't have a CLUE.
Still obsessed, I see.

[Ludwig]

... Credit due to Ludwig for providing data from a report which was generated by a non-profit, non-biased group rather than one slanted far in the direction of his political philosophy.

Why thank you! However, it must be said that the Guttmacher Institute is far from a non-biased group when it comes to Planned Parenthood. The Institute has its genesis in Planned Parenthood and was for many years a part of Planned Parenthood. The Institute even bears the name of one of the early leaders of Planned Parenthood. Given this close, formerly symbiotic, relationship makes this truth even the more painful for Planned Parenthood.

BTW: Thank you very much for reverting to a more pleasant avatar.

[Night Owl]

I've asked this question before. Go ahead and repeal abortion rights. What will be done about the explosion of illegitimate unwanted black and Hispanic babies that will be born? Is welfare going to be repealed too?

Welfare should be repelled.

[mac]

Ogre: in this case you are absolutely wrong about who it is that doesn't have a clue, "look to thyself". Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of abortions on the entire planet. They pay thousands of .......people, with medical licenses, millions of dollars to abort these little unborn babies. i would never be able to understand how you can find abortions "abhorent", but at the same time are ok with funding the procedure. how is it possible to have those 2 opinions in one mind? you bring up the old excuse that if you and i don't pay for it to be done in a nice clean clinic equipped even with muzak, that the mother will take her business to a dark alley. just a thought but, maybe that's where this kind of "medicine" SHOULD be practiced. you say that pp needs our taxes for .....education!.....that's really a stretch since a huge preponderance of the money they get from me and you is used to practice abortions and NOT to educate anyone. Hell, they're even fighting Governor Perry's opinion that the future mother should at least have to hear or view an audio or sonigram of the baby in it's fetus state. nah, ogre, it's you who are absolutely clueless in this matter.....mac

[Ludwig]

I've asked this question before. Go ahead and repeal abortion rights. What will be done about the explosion of illegitimate unwanted black and Hispanic babies that will be born? Is welfare going to be repealed too?

In the US there are an average of 36 couples waiting for every child that is adopted. Every year there are about 2M couples in the US waiting to adopt. If EVERY baby that was to be aborted was born and adopted out to the waiting couples there would STILL be 800K couples waiting to adopt. Babies may be unwanted by their mothers, but they are wanted by others. There are millions of loving parents ready to help.

No, I do not believe that "welfare" programs should be repealed. They should, however, be modified to give legitimately needy people a hand up rather than a hand down. Give me a fish and I'll have a meal; teach me how to fish and you have fed me for a lifetime. Welfare ought not be a profession. As St. Paul ntol us, those who will not work (assuming that they are capable) ought not eat.

[xzochye]

Only 3% of Planned Parenthood's service are abortions. Federal money cannot be used to fund abortions.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

[mac]

oooooh, "fact check"...now there's an organization you can really and always depend on.....mac

[corgifan]

In the US there are an average of 36 couples waiting for every child that is adopted. Every year there are about 2M couples in the US waiting to adopt.
Yes, but you need to be a little more specific: The overwhelming majority of those that are waiting to adopt are waiting for infants. A little more specific: white infants. That's why the waiting list is so long. And the older the kids get, the harder it is to adopt out children of color. If abortion were to be outlawed in today's ULTRA permissive, hyper-sexualized society, the flood of babies born to unfit, unprepared, clueless teen aged destitute mothers will be astronomical.

[Iteachtoo]

And we who see these poor, unwanted, unplanned, throwaway children on a daily basis, sometimes see where it would have been much kinder and humane to allow these babies to go to God before they were born into the destitution that is their life. NO, I absolutely DO NOT support abortion. I am just relating some of the sad cases I have seen on a daily basis since I have been in the classroom. And incidentally, the worst case I ever saw was a white family, not one of color, although, they too exist.

[mac]

You can not say "we......see where it would have been much kinder and humane to allow these babies to go to God before they were born........" and "I absolutely do not suppoort abortion." both. That just won't work, you can't have it both ways........since you are not ignorant you must choose.....only the blissfully ignorant have the option to not choose......mac


And we who see these poor, unwanted, unplanned, throwaway children on a daily basis, sometimes see where it would have been much kinder and humane to allow these babies to go to God before they were born into the destitution that is their life. NO, I absolutely DO NOT support abortion. I am just relating some of the sad cases I have seen on a daily basis since I have been in the classroom. And incidentally, the worst case I ever saw was a white family, not one of color, although, they too exist.

[mac]

but....i teach, you can not excuse inapropriate behavior by pointng out other inappropriate behavior. you can not say that it's ok to destroy these unborn baby boys and girls because some parents don't parent apropriately.......you just can't do that......mac


And we who see these poor, unwanted, unplanned, throwaway children on a daily basis, sometimes see where it would have been much kinder and humane to allow these babies to go to God before they were born into the destitution that is their life. NO, I absolutely DO NOT support abortion. I am just relating some of the sad cases I have seen on a daily basis since I have been in the classroom. And incidentally, the worst case I ever saw was a white family, not one of color, although, they too exist.

[corgifan]

I hope we can support the children who are born so they may have the best chance at becoming happy, healthy, productive citizens.

[Scarlett]

Why is it that most people who are anti abortion are also anti welfare?

[mac]

corgifan: my wife and i raised our 2 bio kids, our 2 adopted kids and our 2 foster kids all on an army sergeant's pay. of course we home schooled and DoDDS schooled and that helped and all the kids got their own selves into their colleges and universitys and paid their own way (mostly) but it can be done and easily done.....these kids can be supported by any and all of us and easily so.....and the rewards are much more than an evening at the movies, lounge, or mall.......and certainly longer lasting......it's just a matter of priorities..........mac


I hope we can support the children who are born so they may have the best chance at becoming happy, healthy, productive citizens.

[mac]

isn't that kind of natural.......isn't that kind of askin' why do most dogs that bark have tails?.......mac (it's not so much that they're against welfare, they're against the government takin' our money and giving it to whom they think should have it instead of us. most of us believe that our churches are much more appropriate than government for providing welfare or emergency assistance or whatever you want to call it. there's also other groups other than churches that can help.....and do help.....we are the most "giving" population on the earth and the conservative American is the most giving of any other political persuasion......mac


Why is it that most people who are anti abortion are also anti welfare?

[corgifan]

corgifan: my wife and i raised our 2 bio kids, our 2 adopted kids and our 2 foster kids all on an army sergeant's pay. of course we home schooled and DoDDS schooled and that helped and all the kids got their own selves into their colleges and universitys and paid their own way (mostly) but it can be done and easily done.....these kids can be supported by any and all of us and easily so.....and the rewards are much more than an evening at the movies, lounge, or mall.......and certainly longer lasting......it's just a matter of priorities..........mac
If all parents and prospective parents were as conscientious as you the number of older kids that have been waiting forever to be adopted would be a lot smaller.

[corgifan]

the conservative American is the most giving of any other political persuasion......mac
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you here!

[Ludwig]

I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you here!

Me too corgi. Liberals are far more giving... the only problem is that they give other people's money rather than their own.

[Night Owl]

I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you here!

Since you are a liberal I am sure you have facts to back up what you say. Please provide those facts.

You don't have a clue about conservatives, and I don't mean Republicans. Those are two different animals.

[THEMEANOGRE]

I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you here!

I, too, disagree with you. The big difference between the conservative folks and the liberals is the conservative will reach into their OWN pocket and give you a $10 bill and tell you that you'll need to come up with the rest of your tab. The liberal will reach into the bucket labelled "the people's money" and give you a fistful of money and say, "Here you go. BTW, keep whatever change there is."
The conservative doesn't mind HELPING, but they want you to pull yourself up. The liberal is willing to let you surrender to your circumstances and do everything FOR you.
The hardcore liberal is a tyrant wearing the guise of an angel. In exchange for their assistance, you wind up surrendering everything, including ultimately your free will.

[mac]

well.....you can disagree all you want but, never the less, it's true.....and generally well known. i'm kind of s'prised you didn't already know that....mac


I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you here!

[mac]

corgi: you may this interesting re conservative vs liberal giving....mac
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

[Ludwig]

corgi: you may this interesting re conservative vs liberal giving....mac
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

I don't see how she would be interested. After all, no one likes truth to overcome his personal bias.

One fact is beyond question, liberals wear more ribbons on their lapels than do conservatives... obvious evidence of their caring.

[mac]

yeow, that's true. no one (well most normal people) likes it when their own ass is gored....mac

[Agent X]

Regarding abortion, MO wrote:

It became legal so that women could have such a procedure done with a modicum of surety they'd survive the experience.


I wish we could say the same for that poor unborn child.

[mac]

i hope and pray for 2 things regarding abortion, 1 that this slaughter will stop and 2 that the llittle baby does not feel any pain.....mac


Regarding abortion, MO wrote:


I wish we could say the same for that poor unborn child.