Punishment or Embarrassment?

[FieryPrincess]

It's from the old kid's book, "Alexander and the Terrible Awful No-Good Very Bad Day" where in this child has a horrible day where nothing goes right. He ends each refrain of what has gone wrong with the threat of moving to Australia

Cute book.

My 5th grade teacher had an Australia but it wasn't used as a time-out for us if she was tired of us. It was a place we could designate for ourselves if we were having one of those days. I had a cushy chair in my room that was somewhat secluded (for me mostly) that I used for the same thing.

Kids' books are great for teaching sound moral concepts. I always use "The Little Engine that Could" and "The Little Red Hen" in my classes for the group work ethic I want to occur.

[Scarlett]

When I was a drama geek in high school, I "did" that story as a solo interpretation. Made it all the way to nationals and won gold! I just rewrote it to Alexandra and the Terrible, Awful, No-Good, Very Bad Day."

It is an awesome story!!! I wish I could just move to Australia....

[cityboy]

I'll go to Australia with ya ...

[CenTexDave]

That's a long way from the Land of Oz.

[Sloane Peterson]

I have used a rope to teach middle schoolers how to walk in a straight line on the right side of the hallway. I see nothing wrong with using it as a teaching guide or a team building exercise. If she is having all of her students do it and not just the few who can't stand in line while the rest of the class laughs, points, and/or throws things at the children, then I see nothing wrong with using it as a teaching tool.

[macs]

ARE YOU ALL SERIOUS? WE STILL USE AUSTRALIA HERE!!! Okay, Okay...we don't call it Australia anymore, but we are REQUIRED to give a warning, then send kids to "refocus" (which might as well be Australia) in our own room and then "refocus" in a buddy room before we are allowed to take any other action. PERIOD. And the admin will ask if you followed your steps and if you didn't, they won't deal with a referral. INTERESTING! Then again, we have complained about discipline for ages at this school! I wonder why??? I can't believe "BIG EYES" is not one of our required steps!

And, as far as stopping and waiting....Do you know I once waited on a class for 20 minutes. I timed it just to see. I finally gave up. I sat them all back down and started making parent phone calls. Some kids don't care how long you sit there and wait on them. Doesn't always work. It really depends on the make up of your class that year and every year will be different.

As teachers we get group punishment ALL the time. Someone screws up in a different grade level, we get a mass email saying we have to start doing AB and C. Why? Because one or two screwed up. Soldiers have group punishment all the time. My husband comes home with all kinds of stories of stupid crap they have to do because some soldier made a dumb decision. All the new motorcycle on post regulations are because of stupid stunts done by soldiers on motorcycles. That is group punishment. Lots of jobs have group "punishment" as you might call it. So, life is all about group punishment. A little peer pressure goes a long way. When a couple are screwing around and the good ones see them and they don't want to feel the wrath, they will either straighten the kid up or they will let someone know they are jerking around. There are lots of ways to look at it. I am sure she will not have to use the rope for long IF it bothers that group of kids. Shame on those THIRD GRADERS for NOT walking in line correctly. By now, they should. I'd be calling their parents and I'd make each individual student speak to their parent as to why they are having to use class time to call them. Oh sometimes you get a reaction. Problem is, depending on the class she has, half of the parents won't give a rip and nothing will be done so she will be lucky to reach the attention and fix half of them. It just depends. In another state, where corporal punishment was allowed, I did that too. For some it worked, for some just the fear of it worked, for others, I could have whipped them all day long and would have gotten NO WHERE. It all depends.

[Yve]

Yep! I remember lockdowns when DH was in the military. We could go for days without seeing him because everyone was locked down at the motor pool or in the field because something got lost.

When I have a generally disruptive class, I break out the student code of conduct and student write it for the rest of the class period. It doesn't happen often, but it usually happens when there are more than a handful of disrupters and some of the good students start feeding into it. Does it catch good students? I'm afraid so. The problem with addressing just the guilty party is that sometimes they can't be pinpointed, but something has to be done before chaos ensued. When students figure it out, they'll drop the dime on the instigators in a heartbeat. The flip side of this is that the truly good students know why the certain kids aren't caught, and they also know which teachers are trying to maintain control and which teachers just don't care. Guess which class they feel safer in?

[puggermom]

group punishment is not always a good thing.The children that don't act up may see no reason not to if they get punished anyway.

[sojourner truth]

Don't know how this might relate to an elementary ed situation, but in the army I have found that most corporal punsishment is designed for one of two results. In the case of the "motorcycle" rules it is because the leadership (whether a General or a Principle) doesn't like having to explain some emabarassing statistic to a superior (commonly referred to as covering ones professional rear) so he makes owning the motorcycle such a pain that most soldiers don't bother to buy one...ergo diminishing his chances for "issues" that highlight his command.

The second reason for corporal punishment, as in the case of a lost item (IE a rifle, radio, or other such "sensitive item" as they are called in the army) is for accountability purposes. Nobody goes home until it is found because anyone may have been a factor in it's dissappearance. Until all leads are exhausted and the item found, no one goes anywhere. That is mainly done to "encourage" everyone to do their best to find it. The sooner the truth comes out about where the item is, the sooner everyone gets to go home and have a beer, or whatever. Said item is usually found in a pawnshop downtown, or leaning beside a tree where the soldier who lost it left it. Said soldier is immediately "the guy that cost me a cold beer and whoopie time with my wife" and doomed for sure. Needless to say, no one wants to ever be "that guy". Noone ever forgets him either. Noone ever loses their weapon again either, unless they really need some money for their crack habit and just don't care.

I have never met children under the age of 16 who could actually grasp the concept and apply it practically. Especially in a group environment. When done at an early age, the offender becomes the "doo doo head" for the rest of his el-hi years.

On the bright side, Bill Gates went to the High school next to mine, and was the class "doo doo head" throughout his school years. Sometimes being a troublemaker can have it's rewards.

[Yve]

Punishment as a knee-jerk reaction is definitely counter productive, but there are times where I can see a practical consequence for a group serves a purpose--for example, classwide disruptions where you have certain students leading the disruptions and most of the class covering down for them. I've used a few tricks up my sleeve to break up that dynamic--and the earlier it's done, the better. That may be something like holding a class from lunch for a few minutes, and if I do that, I release them by tables based on behavior at the time of release so they can see that those who get it together fast will be in better shape than those who don't.

In classwide situations, I've found that my non-offending students understand what is going on and they appreciate that I set the bar and enforce it. It makes life better for them when chaos is not the order of the day. They know the shoe doesn't fit them and they see that I am not waiting for them to be tattle-tales--I'm taking care of my room. Usually what happens in a situation like this is that those students who buy into supporting the class clowns start to change and start to tell the disrupters to get it together--it turns the tide and they quit rewarding the disrupters with the attention and approval they were getting because the ones urging them on now have something to lose.