Accuracy and Ammo

[Mestral]

Someone on another forum is spouting some information, that I think my have been correct a long time ago, but I need some second opinions, from people who actually put a lot of lead downrange. (I got basic qualifying info and have watched others, but that isn't the same.)

How long ago did the army quit calling light machine guns "30 caliber" and start calling them 7.62?
(I am guessing it was about 1975)

If someone can't do better than 3 MOA accuracy on a scoped, bolt action rifle, should he blame his ammo?
(shooter said he was using "ball" ammo)

Is good hunting ammo considered "match grade" ?
(I say that is two different things)

[mac]

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(I say that is two different things)

You are correct.,..mac

[Ludwig]

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... How long ago did the army quit calling light machine guns "30 caliber" and start calling them 7.62?
(I am guessing it was about 1975)

Since the M-14 was a 7.62 mm weapon when it was adopted by the Army in 1957, I'm guessing that the .30 cal. for all weapons using that ammo were redesignated.

If someone can't do better than 3 MOA accuracy on a scoped, bolt action rifle, should he blame his ammo?
(shooter said he was using "ball" ammo)

Sure, blame the ammo, you'll feel better. You should always zero your rifle with the same ammunition you will use. Of course once you have zeroed the rifle then you have to compensate with your point of aim depending on the difference between the range being fired from the range at which the rifle was zeroed.

Is good hunting ammo considered "match grade" ?
(I say that is two different things)

Match ammunition has tight tolerances and strict quality control to make it more consistent and accurate than cheaper general-use ammo. If I were to hunt game at long ranges, such as prong-horned antelope or mountain goat, I would use match grade. For general Texas style hunting, general-use ammo should suffice. Just be sure to zero your rifle with the same ammo you will use for hunting.

[Mestral]

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Since the M-14 was a 7.62 mm weapon when it was adopted by the Army in 1957, I'm guessing that the .30 cal. for all weapons using that ammo were redesignated.

OK, I knew it as a long time ago, just didn't know it was that long ago.

The guy I am discussing this with doesn't (yet) know there is a difference between
the .308 cartridge and the 7.62x51, so I might be on a fool's errand. Maybe I should
start talking about the 7.62x39 or the 7.62x54R, just to mess with him

Sure, blame the ammo, you'll feel better. You should always zero your rifle with the same ammunition you will use. Of course once you have zeroed the rifle then you have to compensate with your point of aim depending on the difference between the range being fired from the range at which the rifle was zeroed.
...

Zero'ing and stuff is pretty elementary, but he maintains there is enough variation in 308 "ball" ammo to prevent accuracy better than 3 MOA. Again, I might be on a fool's errand.

[Grasshopperglock]

Military 'ball' ammo will only group 3"-4". That being the steel core.

I have a few thousand rounds of 5.56 and the best it'll do is 3" at 100 yards. Using a Timmey 1.5# trigger. 16" barrel, off the bench.

The problem is the rotational balance of the bullet. Nothing is matched either. Not in weight, case length, or powder charge. The assembly line military grade stuff just isn't accurate.

So I you're thinking it's you. It's not. Thinking it's the rifle. It's not. It's the ammo.

[sojourner truth]

Old Chinese proverb... "It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools".

The true test of any weapon or ammo is... does it do the job when needed.

[Grasshopperglock]

I like to shoot the tacks that hold the paper target up.

1/4" at 100 yards x 4.

Hand loads matched to each other and a power charge matched to the barrel. FMJ.

Out the crate 5.56 NATO ammo? Yeah, good luck with that. 3" group around the outside of the tack. Bipod on a bench. Fine duplex scope.

[kantwin]

Be of the local indoor gun ranges had some range reload 9mm that every 5th round or so won?t fully eject due to low load of powder.

[fchafey]

I have a Lee Progressive 1000 reloader and if you go to fast it will do that with the powder. A good rhythm and one can do 200 rounds pretty quick, as 200 rounds is all the four tubes hold for 4o cal.

[Mestral]

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Be of the local indoor gun ranges had some range reload 9mm that every 5th round or so won?t fully eject due to low load of powder.

I would want to know who reloaded that ammo. 2% fail to fire is unacceptable, let alone 20%. What does that range do with Fail to Fire ammo?

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I have a Lee Progressive 1000 reloader and if you go to fast it will do that with the powder. A good rhythm and one can do 200 rounds pretty quick, as 200 rounds is all the four tubes hold for 4o cal.

How fast is "pretty quick? 7 minutes?
I could see how too fast would be a problem, as the powder might not have time to drop into the case.