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Thread: MLB: Champion 2017 Astros Cheated

  1. #1
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    MLB: Champion 2017 Astros Cheated

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...ft-picks-lost/

    Major League Baseball issued harsh penalties against the#Houston Astros#on Monday after a lengthy investigation into the team's use of technology to steal signs. The sanctions include one-year suspensions for Astros manager A.J. Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow as well as a $5 million fine and the loss of future draft picks.

    Shortly after the sanctions were announced, the Astros#fired both Hinch and Luhnow, each of whom will be ineligible to partake in the 2020 season.

    Here is the full list of Houston's penalties:

    #Manager A.J. Hinch suspended for one year. Hinch was then fired by the Astros.
    #GM Jeff Luhnow suspended for one year. Luhnow was then fired by the Astros
    #Former assistant GM Brandon Taubman suspended one year.
    #Astros forfeit their first- and second- round draft picks the next two years.
    #Astros fined $5 million, the maximum allowed under MLB's constitution.

    Here are nine things to know about the Astros' scandal and punishment.

    1. Astros' use of technology crossed line

    Stealing signs is not explicitly against MLB's official rules, but where the Astros crossed the line is their use of technology (a camera/monitor system) to gain information. The Astros used a center-field camera to pick up the opposing catcher's signs and then relayed the signs to their batters. Players alerted hitters of an incoming off-speed pitch by banging on trashcans in the dugout.

    2. $5 million is the maximum penalty

    For those wondering, the $5 million fine is not a random figure. Rather,#it's the maximum financial punishment imposable under the current Major League Constitution.#

    3. Mike Fiers was the whistleblower

    In a bombshell#report published by#The Athletic#in November, right-hander#Mike Fiers, who pitched for the Astros from 2015-17, gave an on-the-record account of how the Astros crossed the line. "That's not playing the game the right way," he said at the time. "They were advanced and willing to go above and beyond to win."

    4. Cora,#Red Sox#penalties to come

    The league's discipline against the Astros is precedent setting. It's expected that the Boston Red Sox -- and specifically manager Alex Cora -- will also face severe punishment for their alleged use of cameras to steal signs during their 2018 championship season. In 2017, the Red Sox were fined for using Apple Watches as part of a sign-stealing scheme, and Manfred warned teams caught cheating in a similar way would be severely disciplined going forward. MLB's investigation into the Red Sox remains ongoing.

    Cora was identified in Manfred's report as a ringleader of Houston's sign-stealing (and otherwise "player-driven") operation.

    5. Beltran also named in report

    In addition to Cora, one other current big-league manager is named in the report:#New York Mets#skipper Carlos Beltran. Because Beltran was a player at the time, and because MLB isn't punishing players who were involved, he seems likely to avoid any kind of suspension.#

    6. Crane not being blamed

    Another individual who will skate free is Astros owner Jim Crane. In the introduction of the report, Manfred stated that "I can say our investigation revealed absolutely no evidence" that Crane "was aware of any of the conduct described in this report." Crane, according to Manfred, is said to be "extraordinarily troubled and upset by the conduct of members of his organization."#

    Hinch, it should be noted, is said to have destroyed the monitor the Astros used to steal signs on two occasions, but did not put an end to the operation, and did not alert Luhnow or a higher authority.

    7. Who might replace Luhnow and Hinch?

    The Astros will now have to name a new manager and GM. According to multiple reports, Joe Espada, Houston's bench coach under Hinch in 2019, will take over the managerial role. Espada was a candidate for multiple managerial openings outside of Houston this winter. If, at least on an interim basis, the organization stays in-house for GM, then the favorite would seem to be Pete Putila, who was promoted to assistant GM back in September.#

    8. League conducted exhaustive investigation

    According to a report released last December, Astros personnel admitted to MLB that the club used a center-field video camera to rely pitching signs in real time. MLB's months-long investigation started shortly after The Athletic's report and it covered the 2017, 2018 and 2019 seasons. Investigators interviewed 60 witnesses and gathered 76,000 emails related to the Astros sign-stealing scheme.

    9. Report suggests Astros have bad culture

    One other noteworthy piece from the report is its conclusion on the Astros' baseball operations culture. "While no one can dispute that Luhnow's baseball operations department is an industry leader in its analytics, it is very clear to me that the culture of the baseball operations department, manifesting itself in the way its employees are treated, its relations with other Clubs, and its relations with the media and external stakeholders, has been very problematic."

    10. Have Luhnow or Hinch responded?

    Hinch has stayed quiet publicly for the time being, but Luhnow released a statement on Monday evening. In the statement, Luhnow said he is "not a cheater" and added he was "deeply #upset" he wasn't alerted about the sign-stealing scheme because he "would have stopped it."#

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    That's horrible. I hate cheaters. I get it, if you aint cheatin you aint tryin', but that is beyond right. Too bad they cant vacate the wins.....
    "I hit the ball as hard as I can. If I can find it, I hit it again" John Daly

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    Quote Originally Posted by fchafey View Post
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    That's horrible. I hate cheaters. I get it, if you aint cheatin you aint tryin', but that is beyond right. Too bad they cant vacate the wins.....
    basically, i agree but i don't think that's "cheating".......and it oughtta be taken out of the rule or cheat book......kinda like a boxer knowin' that his opponent drops his left shoulder when he get's ready to throw a right jab or uncork a right haymaker.....ain't nothing cheatin' 'bout that......mac
    Last edited by mac; January 13th, 2020 at 7:24 PM.
    Live as if you were living a second time, and as though you had acted wrongly the first time.

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    Not quite the same mac.

    Now if every time a pitcher was about to throw a curve ball, he looked down at his shoe, then your analogy would be accurate. That's public action and everyone would know it.

    They were stealing internal communications between the pitcher and catcher and using technology to not only steal the signs, but to communicate the upcoming pitch to the batter in real time.

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    So the Red Sox also are guilty of cheating, too. I guess it’s a win at all costs attitude for those teams. Disappointing for their fans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
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    Not quite the same mac.

    Now if every time a pitcher was about to throw a curve ball, he looked down at his shoe, then your analogy would be accurate. That's public action and everyone would know it.

    They were stealing internal communications between the pitcher and catcher and using technology to not only steal the signs, but to communicate the upcoming pitch to the batter in real time.
    they didn't steal nothing...they just observed and communicated.....just like a base runner being told by his 3rd base coach to come on to third base and then head for home.......nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with seeing what a catcher does with his hands on he field behind home plate........for me, that should not be against any rule......mac
    Live as if you were living a second time, and as though you had acted wrongly the first time.

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    Wow mac, you are now comparing base running to sign STEALING. What a stretch to defend your cheaters. Even the fired Luhnow said it was sign stealing.

    But mac says it wasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
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    they didn't steal nothing...they just observed and communicated.....

    ........for me, that should not be against any rule......mac
    FWIW -
    1. Astros' use of technology crossed line

    Stealing signs is not explicitly against MLB's official rules, but where the Astros crossed the line is their use of technology (a camera/monitor system) to gain information. The Astros used a center-field camera to pick up the opposing catcher's signs and then relayed the signs to their batters. Players alerted hitters of an incoming off-speed pitch by banging on trashcans in the dugout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
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    Wow mac, you are now comparing base running to sign STEALING. What a stretch to defend your cheaters. Even the fired Luhnow said it was sign stealing.

    But mac says it wasn't.
    you must have meant someone else, i'm the guy that says it wasn't stolen.......

    just out of curiosity, is it ok with you if one of the basemen or a tv viewer out in omaha or shanghai picks up the sign and notify's the bullpen or next up batter via cell phone what's comin'?......mac
    Live as if you were living a second time, and as though you had acted wrongly the first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
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    you must have meant someone else, i'm the guy that says it wasn't stolen.......

    just out of curiosity, is it ok with you if one of the basemen or a tv viewer out in omaha or shanghai picks up the sign and notify's the bullpen or next up batter via cell phone what's comin'?......mac
    I guess it depends upon what baseballs definition of technology is. If technology is a camera/monitor, than a phone would be ok.
    "I hit the ball as hard as I can. If I can find it, I hit it again" John Daly

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