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Thread: Lessons learned

  1. #1
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    Lessons learned

    I fancy myself as a pretty smart guy, and until recently thought I did all the right things to keep my kids' inappropriate activity to a minimum. We talked about right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate ways to use their devices and the internet, I showed them examples of inappropriate actions highlighting news horror stories about what can happen, and blocked inappropriate sites on my network to keep them from getting into things I didn't think they should. My 2 oldest are 12 and 15, the oldest got a cell phone when I went to Iraq when they were 10 since we didn't have a land line at the house "for emergencies", and to facilitate communication while I was over yonder. I trusted my child to do the right things, and felt they were mature enough and felt confident that our talks sunk in. Boy was I wrong...

    After an incident recently, I ended up having to use software to recover deleted messages on my eldests phone (iphonebox specifically, purchased and downloaded from Amazon). I was pretty shocked at what I found, and figured I'd use my experience to help my friends.

    My eldest daughter was told that she was not allowed to date until they were 16. I found out after the incident that her mother had started to let her date without telling me. I was, and still am, angry about that, and to be honest the communication between my ex and I has significantly improved because of the incident, but I feel it should have been better long before it happened. A few things leading up to the incident lead me to believe that something wasn't right, and unfortunately I reacted too late.

    First, there was a sudden unexplained interest in going to HS sporting events and games. Then, her usually good grades were slipping. Next there was a trip to the doctor for a UTI. By this point, I was suspicious and told her mother as such, who discounted my concerns as silly and "a UTI doesn't equal sex" (probably had something to do with them hiding our daughters' dating). Then I started noticing unexplained absences at school on KISD Home Access, usually 1st period, indicating she was ditching. I confronted my daughter about them, and she explained them away as "we had a sub" or something along those lines. Because I trusted my daughter up to this point and felt she was generally a mature person, I let it slip until I discovered hickeys on her neck. At that point, I KNEW what was going on, and tried in vain to get her to tell me what she was doing, so that I could take her to the doctor and make sure she didn't end up like many of my other siblings who go pregnant and didn't graduate high school. Either way, she was going to the doctor, with or without coming clean.

    My daughter swears that the way I presented her the opportunity to come clean so that we could get her protection made her feel like I was accusing her of being a "ho". That's not how I remember it, and frankly I've always been pretty open and direct with my kids regarding such topics, uncomfortable as they may be at times. No, I don't want her being sexually active, but since I can't be by her side 24/7 and she needs to learn from her mistakes, although I wish she'd learn more from the countless stories and news about what not to do instead of having to learn the "hard way". Getting her protection only reduces the likelihood of her getting pregnant, and does nothing for the prevention of STD's, which we've argued/discussed numerous times. I don't know what it is with kids' belief that "it's my body", which may be true, but decisions have consequences, including legally since I'm responsible for her until she's an "adult". She swears that she used protection every time, but at this point her balance is zero in the bank of trust. The incident included a call from my ex telling me "Well, you were right" when she got the call about the incident. I'm being vague here on purpose, I'm sure y'all get the picture without needing details.

    At any rate, fast forward a bit and I'll share with you what I've (re)learned from this;

    1 - Communication between parents is critical, even if you're divorced. The mother-daughter and father-son bond is important, but not at the expense of their health and well being. Lying to the other parent will get you nothing by trouble.

    2 - Talk with your kids and make sure they know your expectations and the rules, and the consequences for not adhering to them.

    3 - Trust your gut. When something doesn't feel quite right, it probably isn't.

    4 - Talking about technology is great, but make sure you lock it down too. iPhones are ridiculously easy to restrict content (Settings > General > Restrictions). You need to monitor their activity, especially since technology is so abundant and inappropriate content is readily available.

    5 - I wish I had done more than random, infrequent checks of my daughter's phone. Parents need to trust their kids, but on the same token they need to be ABLE to trust them. Once that trust is broken, they (and you, it works both ways) need to understand that it took a long time to build trust, and it' won't be restored in short order.
    Common sense is not as common as you'd think...

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  3. #2
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    Skindog, I felt for you as I was reading your post. I do empathize with you...My youngest daughter, who is about to turn 16, has always been the easiest child ever to raise, with the kindest heart..and she's always been Daddy's girl. However, when Mom decided it was ok for her to have a phone, problems started. Cell phones and the internet are the worst for kids now...They are used for toys and instruments that have a tendency, let's say, to create many unwanted problems, to put it mildly, as you discussed. ...Personally, I hate cell phones in large part because of how they have affected our society..kids and adults. ..With all the issues in today's world, the things our kids and their peers have put in their heads by the mass media, it is hard to keep a child on the path that you want them to take.....It sounds like you have been trying your best to be a good, loving, concerned father. I do feel for you. Just keep loving your daughter, keep teaching and showing her right from wrong, always showing her that you care about her,...and good luck to you..and your daughter.
    Last edited by sickofpc; February 10th, 2017 at 11:12 AM.

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    If I could go back in time, I'd set up a mirrored device (or monitoring app) to capture all texts and such that went to her device. That way, I'd be able to nip inappropriate conduct in the bud. What drove me to use software to pull up deleted messages and such was large gaps in her messaging history. No teenage girl goes 3 days without sending or receiving a text. She was infuriated that I "invaded her privacy" by recovering those messages, for good reason. What I found was pretty shocking, and involved more than just sexting. I was under the illusion that I had a "good girl" but found out the hard way that everyone makes mistakes, but the amount and level of them in such a short period of time was the most shocking of all. I'm would have never dreamed of some of the things she managed to get into, and her mother who's admittedly a bit of a prude, was severely heartbroken with the things uncovered. Her mother and I are a good balance of tough and loving, with me usually being the "bad cop".

    I'm doing my best to show her I love her, and it's hard to watch her be so defiant and making such horrendously bad decisions, especially with her knowledge that both of her parents grew up in poverty and work very hard to make sure they don't have the same childhood as we did. I've shown her some of the dumps I had to live in growing up on a recent vacation to CA and she knows my family and I are not close because of my upbringing. Maybe that's where we went wrong. I don't give my children anything they haven't deserved or worked for. My son is still grounded from playing his Xbox due to bad grades. My daughter now has an iPod, but it's severely restricted i.e. only specific websites are permitted (mostly kids websites and education), no apps other than what I've installed (Netflix and YouTube), cannot contact people I haven't put in her contacts in the device, etc. She's only allowed on a computer with direct adult supervision. Just as they had to work to earn them, when they break the rules I ensure they suffer the consequences, just like they will when they're on their own.

    When she made her mistakes, I brought the hammer down, up to and including removing her bedroom door. I informed her that although I will always love her, the consequences for her actions will be severe. I even went so far as to write up a "contract" outlining specific things she may and may not do, and what her parents will and will not do. She refused to sign it, but was told that even without her signing it the content would be effective regardless.

    I was not a dream child either, but all of the very wrong things I did was after I moved out when I was 15. I know from first-hand experience what happens when you make extremely poor decisions because you think you know everything. Fortunately I figured my #### out (with a great deal of help from the motivation to be with her mother) and turned my life around. Most of my side of the family continues to live in poverty because of poor decisions, and I fight every day to try to ensure my children don't make those mistakes. It kills me to watch them turn down the path that I know only leads to a life that I fought so hard to get away from. I've been told that I won't have a relationship with her because of what's happened. Perhaps one day she'll look back and figure out that all the "mean things" I've done weren't out of malice or anger, but out of love.
    Common sense is not as common as you'd think...

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    As parents all we can do is give our kids the guidance and tools they need to make the right choices in life. Unfortunately it is up to the kids to use them. It sounds like you did everything right so don't beat yourself up.

    At least you found out early and are taking steps to prevent any unplanned pregnancies. No one wants their under aged child having sex and unfortunately you can't forbid your child from doing it again. If they want to do it they will find a way.
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  9. #5
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    As they say, Skindog, I feel you. But I worry about your proposed solution. Here's why.

    Everything about abortion is about contraception. Almost half of women who get abortions do so because their contraception failed. No wonder that Planned Parenthood constantly pushes contraception. Failed contraception leads to unintended pregnancy, which leads to abortion.

    As a husband and father, I am well aware of the pressures to conform to the world’s way of viewing contraception. But this is no reason for me to abandon the duty entrusted to me of teaching the whole moral law and the law of God.

    In our humanity, concerned as we are with worldly things, we are not disposed to hear denunciation of contraception. Most of us are worried about maintaining or improving our relatively comfortable standard of living. Children are expensive and require a huge investment of time, care, and attention. It’s easy to see rearing of children as incompatible with a life-style of material comfort. Contraception appears to be a simple and effective way to limit our family without compromising our life-style.

    I can already hear folks telling me that I’m being terribly idealistic, or simply unrealistic, or out of step with the modern world, or lacking compassion for the economic and psychological hardships couples must undergo in having and raising children.

    I base my opinion on contraception on a very positive understanding of marriage (55 years, same spouse), sexuality, and God. Here is a quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew: “Some Pharisees came to him, and to test him they asked, ‘Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?’ He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matt. 19:3-6).

    The notion that husband and wife become two-in-one-flesh through sexual union implies that each presents to the other the gift of self. This is the meaning of love, to give of oneself to one’s beloved. The sexual act between husband and wife, however, represents a very pure form of love since it requires the spouses to love each other unreservedly and whole-heartedly. Contraception compromises the two-in-one-flesh unity of the marital act. The use of contraception is not compatible with the kind of pure and total gift that marriage asks of husband and wife.

    Because contraception goes against the creative act of God and compromises the unity of the relationship between the marriage partners, I believe that contraception is disordered and morally wrong. It is wrong, because it violates the goods of marriage and procreation.

    Sexual intercourse is naturally ordered to procreation. This order exemplifies the natural law. I oppose the violation of the natural ordination between sexual intercourse and the beginning of new life that God, Himself, has established.

    No, I don’t propose that couples to have as many children as possible, or to engage in sexual intercourse every time the wife appears to be fertile. I just think that if a couple has a sexual union, that they should not deliberately attempt to work against the natural order that God established between the marital act and His power to create new life. In effect, contraception slams the door in the face of God and encloses the married couple in a world that is deprived of sources of supernatural help.

    Because my belief concerning contraception has roots in the natural law, I have no objection to anything that is natural. I am an eager supporter of a form of child-spacing or fertility regulation in marriage known as Natural Family Planning (NFP) and using NFP we were able to limit our family size to that which we could support. Using contraception is like telling God that He should not show up, that His creative act is not only unwanted, but also disrespected. Whereas, abstaining from intercourse as part of NFP does not send any such message.

    Contraception advocates are not without ideals; it’s simply that their ideals cannot be realized through the contraceptive means that they propose. The “ideals” contraception promoters envisioned, such as less sexual anxiety, happier marriages, fewer divorces, and better rapport between parents and children, have proven to be decidedly impractical and unrealistic. To believe that contraception will bring about a greater two-in-one-flesh intimacy is to believe in impossibility.

    Continence can be a greater expression of love than contraceptive sex. When husband and wife decide, with good reason, to forego the marital act rather than use contraception, they honor the personal wholeness that sexual union implies. It is better that they not use sex to express their love than to misuse it. A married couple honors the wholeness of the marital act positively, by expressing it in its natural wholeness and integrity and negatively, by not expressing it at all rather than defiling it by expressing it in a debased way. The same can be said about telling the truth. One may tell the truth or not say anything at all. However, it is the falsified truth, the lie, which is morally objectionable.
    "A boy cannot become a girl and a man cannot become a woman, not even if he shuts his eyes and wishes really hard."



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    Lud, it is nice to hear you are so devout in your Catholic faith. However, I am one of those that you refer to in your 5th paragraph. Whether or not someone uses birth control is one of the most personal and private decisions any person ever makes. I think skindog is doing what he thinks is best for his daughter, especially since she is apparently already sexually active. I think we all know what happens when that door is opened....The only reference I know about birth control in the Bible could possibly be about Onan, who was not punished because of birth control, but selfishness. That's it, as far as I know...I think the Catholic Church is the only Christian denomination that believes this way wholly, isn't it?..Even Mormons..and to a small extent, the Amish..have changed their thinking about birth control. ..Regardless, I believe skindog is really trying to be a good father and trying to do the best for his daughter. In today's world, it is harder than ever to be the father that you hope to be. My daughter calls me "old school",which is fine with me. In fact, I am kind of proud about her calling me that.... I applaud skindog for caring and trying like he is..and wish him the best.............Lud, referring to your last three paragraphs, do you believe that lying, spreading false rumors without substantiation, or telling a falsehood just to get someone else in trouble, or bring attention to one's self, for example, is a sin such as birth control? Are all sins equal to you?.....Personally, I have always thought a lie was the father of most sin, but that is ..jmo.
    Last edited by sickofpc; February 10th, 2017 at 1:48 PM.

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    Although the idea of abstinence is a great one, in today's day and age it isn't realistic. I'd love for her to abstain, but the reality is that it's not going to happen. As such, I'm going to do what I can to prevent her from having children before she's an adult because that's what a responsible parent should do.

    If I recall correctly having children was a punishment bestowed upon Adam and Eve, not a reward, but that's another debate that belongs in the religion threads. We'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to that in this thread.
    Last edited by skindog; February 10th, 2017 at 2:13 PM.
    Common sense is not as common as you'd think...

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    I wasn't going to chime in, but here goes: We put our girls on the pill as means to regulate their menstrual cycle per the doctors guidance. I also checked into this method with a close family friend in Jersey who also happens to be an OB. Having put them on the pill gave my warped mind all sorts of possible vignettes with high school boys, having been one once myself. All you can do is try the best you can and hope for the best. I may not be perfect but I felt successful in that I never heard my daughters ask me or their mother what they had to do to make themselves popular with the boys. I was lucky, they were popular enough to do all the normal stuff in high school. I would also hear them say on the phone that so and so was pretty stupid for getting pregnant, so that gave me some peace of mind. It is hard to raise girls and I have no illusions they were Polly pure breads. I sadly lost my UT Freshman in 08 in a car accident and while she lived in the Longhorn Apartments off Riverside, I knew she wasn't playing checkers on Friday night. My oldest is thriving in the spit pit business running 3 dental offices and she did some really stupid crap in high school I had to go bail her out for and I saw how the boys were looking at her, good grief. If you are apprehensive now, show up for lunch one day and hang out with her, you will be shocked. Good luck and here are some tips: you lock down their phone and they get a buddy to jail break it. You regulate their time on the home computer, they will find a computer elsewhere, you ground them, they sneak out, you push one way they will push the other just to spite you. You dress them like the Amish, they stash a mini skirt in their locker, You check and see that their car is parked in front of their friends house and your happy it is. Except for the fact they jumped in another car and left. I had to use all my crooked talents in order to be able to keep up with them and I was able to satisfy myself they weren't doing that bad. Good luck, raising girls, I wouldn't trade for anything else and it absolutely kept me on my game from the time I noticed their jeans were fitting kind of different.
    Last edited by fchafey; February 10th, 2017 at 3:06 PM.
    "The difference between golf and government is that in golf you cant improve your lie"
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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickofpc View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...Lud, referring to your last three paragraphs, do you believe that lying, spreading false rumors without substantiation, or telling a falsehood just to get someone else in trouble, or bring attention to one's self, for example, is a sin such as birth control? Are all sins equal to you?.....Personally, I have always thought a lie was the father of most sin, but that is ..jmo.
    Why ask me about sin. I don't remember having said anything about sin in my posting. At any rate, disobedience/disrespect of God is sin, Jesus Christ himself said that not all sins are equal. He said that some sins are deadly (moral) such as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and thus some are not so. It depends on the seriousness of the act, or the failure to act when one ought to act, and the level of knowledge and free will of the actor. I, too, am a sinner. Judgment is not in my purview but is reserved to God alone.
    "A boy cannot become a girl and a man cannot become a woman, not even if he shuts his eyes and wishes really hard."



  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fchafey View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I wasn't going to chime in, but here goes: We put our girls on the pill as means to regulate their menstrual cycle per the doctors guidance. I also checked into this method with a close family friend in Jersey who also happens to be an OB. Having put them on the pill gave my warped mind all sorts of possible vignettes with high school boys, having been one once myself. All you can do is try the best you can and hope for the best. I may not be perfect but I felt successful in that I never heard my daughters ask me or their mother what they had to do to make themselves popular with the boys. I was lucky, they were popular enough to do all the normal stuff in high school. I would also hear them say on the phone that so and so was pretty stupid for getting pregnant, so that gave me some peace of mind. It is hard to raise girls and I have no illusions they were Polly pure breads. I sadly lost my UT Freshman in 08 in a car accident and while she lived in the Longhorn Apartments off Riverside, I knew she wasn't playing checkers on Friday night. My oldest is thriving in the spit pit business running 3 dental offices and she did some really stupid crap in high school I had to go bail her out for and I saw how the boys were looking at her, good grief. If you are apprehensive now, show up for lunch one day and hang out with her, you will be shocked. Good luck and here are some tips: you lock down their phone and they get a buddy to jail break it. You regulate their time on the home computer, they will find a computer elsewhere, you ground them, they sneak out, you push one way they will push the other just to spite you. You dress them like the Amish, they stash a mini skirt in their locker, You check and see that their car is parked in front of their friends house and your happy it is. Except for the fact they jumped in another car and left. I had to use all my crooked talents in order to be able to keep up with them and I was able to satisfy myself they weren't doing that bad. Good luck, raising girls, I wouldn't trade for anything else and it absolutely kept me on my game from the time I noticed their jeans were fitting kind of different.
    My awesome spouse and I raised three daughters and we had none of these issues. They are all happily married and raising my 13 grandchildren. We must have done something wrong. Other than taking our marriage vows seriously and renewing them in our hearts every morning, I don't know what we did wrong.
    Last edited by Ludwig; February 10th, 2017 at 4:17 PM.
    "A boy cannot become a girl and a man cannot become a woman, not even if he shuts his eyes and wishes really hard."



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