General Ammunition Thread

[Mestral]

I thought I would open a general purpose ammunition thread to replace a couple of the threads we previously ran. I plan to build a general list of links to previous threads with good information and continue discussion of availability and cost (which seem good now), as well as types and performance. Also I will include some efforts to ban certain classes of ammo, or restrict availability of ammo.

I am not interested in general ammo restrictions in California, Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, or New York,
as those governments have scrapped the Constitution and are now what I call the disputed territories.
(They could be discussed under "methods and strategies of smuggling" though.)

Discoveries of good local deals on ammo are welcome, as are questions about performance of certain types and brands, or performance
in certain firearms, or suitability for certain kinds of hunting. mac recently schooled me on hunting thick skinned animals, for instance.

[Mestral]

Along the lines of ammo restrictions, the BATF has issued an order this month to ban some kinds of ammo from being sold, starting about 30 days from now.
The green tip 5.56 round in among them.

Now would be a great time to have already bought several years supply,
else, there is no time like the present to buy every round you can lay your hands on.

[The321]

.223 are next in line.

[Dagobert II]

The good thing about government stockpiling of arms and ammunition is that the government has a habit of losing whatever it stockpiles thus making it readily available to everyone. I think I'll open carry one of these in the bed of a pickup, or cover it with a tarp for concealed carry. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=18587608

[sojourner truth]

I bought 1000 rounds of the green tipped 5.56 a year ago.... I use up my 223 at the range because it is cheaper. Think I still have about 3000 rounds of 5.56 and 2000 rounds of the 223 left. Maybe 3000 rounds of 7.62x39, and 1000 rounds of the 308/7.62 NATO. Only have about 500 rounds of 45 and 380.. The 22LR box is full... Probably a few thousand rounds of that... It all should last me a year or so... barring revolution or something.

When I get really chintzy, I use the MP 15-22 and just shoot up the 22LR....

[Mestral]

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.223 are next in line.

No, next in line is anything with steel components in the bullet.
There is already a list, and I will try to find it and post it here.
I wanted to get this started, and I am still a little half cocked.

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I bought 1000 rounds of the green tipped 5.56 a year ago.... I use up my 223 at the range because it is cheaper. ...

The green tip ammo is about to get REAL expensive, and by April 1st, only available on the Black Market.

The already killed off steel core 5.45x45, last year.
All it takes is some one producing a handgun that will shoot it (like the Thompson Contender).

I might do a little research and publish a design and recipe for home made, armor piercing, ammo.
(I'm an engineer, and that is the kind of stuff my mind thinks up)

[mac]

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Along the lines of ammo restrictions, the BATF has issued an order this month to ban some kinds of ammo from being sold, starting about 30 days from now.
The green tip 5.56 round in among them.

Now would be a great time to have already bought several years supply,
else, there is no time like the present to buy every round you can lay your hands on.

who did the BATF "this month issue this order" to?.....mac

[sojourner truth]

All of my 7.62 NATO is steel jacketed. I have found a few places where I can get it cheaper, and it is almost always some surplus ammo that is steel jacketed.

For my AR, there seems to still be a lot available in different conditions. I am looking at a few thousand rounds of the 5.56 in stripper clips. I used to use those clips a lot at the range, and they were pretty neat and fast. AND, they work even in the newer Magpuls. I stopped buying the cheap 5.56 mags made out of metal because I was having tons of failure to feed issues with them. They are not precision machined, and would stick on the sharp edges of the brass when they were feeding in the ammo. I got so pissed, I gave threw away to the guy that runs astro range. I don't have that problem with the plastic mags.

I sort of like the ones with the windows in the sides, or that have a thumb assist for loading. Pull down the spring a tad, and the round slides right in. No forcing needed.

But as far as steel jacketed ammo is concerned, I'd just as soon not have it in anything other than for the M1A... Most ranges won't let you use it, by the way, because they are afraid they will somehow get over the berm and do damage somewhere. I can't figure that one out. But then, I don't tell them I am shooting it out of the M1A, and they don't really check it at all anyhow. There is a sign in the office, but I just play dumb, like I didn't see it.

Not like I'm trying to shoot a tank or anything.

[Mestral]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/171...ding_M855.html

"Some ammunition that was previously exempted as “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes,” specifically 5.56mm constituent projectiles of SS109 and M855 cartridges, will again be regulated as “armor piercing ammunition.” Except as provided by law, no person may manufacture or import such ammunition, and manufacturers or importers may not sell or deliver such ammunition. ATF will maintain the exemption for 30-06 M2AP cartridges

Proposed change to ATF regulatory framework for "armor piercing" ammunition

Note: on the thread, a lot of cussing follows after this post.

The "proposed" rule change: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...g_purposes.pdf

When LEOPA was finally passed by Congress in 1986, however, the final bill did not
include a performance-based standard, or limit the definition of armor piercing ammunition to
ammunition “designed” for use in a handgun. Instead, the definition has two alternatives: the
first focuses on the composition of the ammunition, and whether it “may be used” in a handgun;
the second focuses on size, jacket weight, and the design and intention for the ammunition.
Specifically, the definition of “armor piercing ammunition” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) provides:
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron,
brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended
for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25
percent of the total weight of the projectile

It also should be noted, with the constant attacks on "lead" in ammo, the following metals are found in the above paragraph: brass and copper
Hence this adminstration's intent to ban lead, copper and brass bullets.
I guess we could make ammo out of pistachio nuts.

[sojourner truth]

It almost sounds like the piece is wanting to do away with everything but 22 caliber ammo.

And why the proscription on armor piercing ammo? Because it might be able to penetrate a protective vest.

The government will keep that for themselves, it seems.

Now I'm trying to think of alloys that could be substituted for those mentioned, and I'm drawing a blank..... Other than lead. Shoot, they even mentioned beryllium... And that is a stretch folks.

Maybe we'll be shooting wooden bullets... or high density plastic. Probably out of muzzle loaders before it's all over.