Complaints?

[Charles Grubb]

Rick and Scarlett:
First off, allow me to commend you for trying to do a good job.
That said, you can't please everyone.
It appears that some of us are dissatisfied with robust, political debate.
It would also appear, that some of us can't get enough of that form of debate.
I might have a compromise that could make MOST of us content.
Would it be possible for you fine folks to create a thread that is dedicated to tough, knock down, drag out, political debate?
Of course, no obscenity, threats of violence, or anything illegal would be tolerated.
But, other than that, everything else goes!
However, to enter that forum, participants would have to agree to abide by its special rules.
The details can be worked out and the rest can be tweaked.
But, what do you think?
That way, complaints would be lessened, 99% of us would be happy, and your lives would be easier (ours too).
If you enter the special debate area, you understand that it won't be like the regular area.
But, no one would feel that their rights are being slighted or abused.
You folks would not be seen as censors.
See, I'm a UNITER, :irule not a DIVIDER; unlike that Kenyan carpetbagger! ;) :)
Come on people, what say you?

[Night Owl]

Rick and Scarlett:
First off, allow me to commend you for trying to do a good job.
That said, you can't please everyone.
It appears that some of us are dissatisfied with robust, political debate.
It would also appear, that some of us can't get enough of that form of debate.
I might have a compromise that could make MOST of us content.
Would it be possible for you fine folks to create a thread that is dedicated to tough, knock down, drag out, political debate?
Of course, no obscenity, threats of violence, or anything illegal would be tolerated.
But, other than that, everything else goes!
However, to enter that forum, participants would have to agree to abide by its special rules.
The details can be worked out and the rest can be tweaked.
But, what do you think?
That way, complaints would be lessened, 99% of us would be happy, and your lives would be easier (ours too).
If you enter the special debate area, you understand that it won't be like the regular area.
But, no one would feel that their rights are being slighted or abused.
You folks would not be seen as censors.
See, I'm a UNITER, :irule not a DIVIDER; unlike that Kenyan carpetbagger! ;) :)
Come on people, what say you?
:thumbsup:thumbsup Excellent idea.

[Rick]

Not so fast!

While I am not discounting the idea, as it does have merit. I do have some issues with it.

First of all, define robust political debate? How would that differ from what we currently have?

Does this mean that someone can post a well thought out response to another well thought out response, then someone else can come in and say, "Spoken like a true liberal."?

Would name-calling be permitted?

What areas would be included? National? State? Local?

I have seen message boards with sections like that and they become defined by the negativity.

I think rules will have to be determined before a decision is made.

This notion that I owe people some rights is getting out of hand. If I owe someone some rights, then that must make me the government, and that means I can levy a tax on your asses!!! :bluerofl

I have another idea about this, but I want to see where the discussion goes first.

[Phantomwarrior]

Rick and Scarlett:
First off, allow me to commend you for trying to do a good job.
That said, you can't please everyone.
It appears that some of us are dissatisfied with robust, political debate.
It would also appear, that some of us can't get enough of that form of debate.
I might have a compromise that could make MOST of us content.
Would it be possible for you fine folks to create a thread that is dedicated to tough, knock down, drag out, political debate?
Of course, no obscenity, threats of violence, or anything illegal would be tolerated.
But, other than that, everything else goes!
However, to enter that forum, participants would have to agree to abide by its special rules.
The details can be worked out and the rest can be tweaked.
But, what do you think?
That way, complaints would be lessened, 99% of us would be happy, and your lives would be easier (ours too).
If you enter the special debate area, you understand that it won't be like the regular area.
But, no one would feel that their rights are being slighted or abused.
You folks would not be seen as censors.
See, I'm a UNITER, :irule not a DIVIDER; unlike that Kenyan carpetbagger! ;) :)
Come on people, what say you?

:thumbsup:thumbsup I concur.

[Scarlett]

Rick brings up some very valid points.

I am thinking that, perhaps, some of you could either discuss the "rules" with Rick..or, he can teach one of you how to start a very negative forum and you can have at it at your expense.

Rick pays ALL the operating costs for this forum.
I am just along for the ride...and try to help out with the complaints and suggestions as they come in. And wow...do they come in....all the time, all day, every day.

Perhaps we could charge you die-hard-wanna-argue-people a user fee for membership into that thread? Just tossing that idea out there.

Seems everyone wants to scream and yell that we deny you your rights, yet you take none of the hard work and money that we throw into this into mind during your rants.

Tax them, Rick, then do it....:thumbsup

[BillK]

Rick brings up some very valid points.

I am thinking that, perhaps, some of you could either discuss the "rules" with Rick..or, he can teach one of you how to start a very negative forum and you can have at it at your expense.

Rick pays ALL the operating costs for this forum.
I am just along for the ride...and try to help out with the complaints and suggestions as they come in. And wow...do they come in....all the time, all day, every day.

Perhaps we could charge you die-hard-wanna-argue-people a user fee for membership into that thread? Just tossing that idea out there.

Seems everyone wants to scream and yell that we deny you your rights, yet you take none of the hard work and money that we throw into this into mind during your rants.

Tax them, Rick, then do it....:thumbsup

If you do this (I was initially for it) I will not join that section - I am not in the adult joke section either. That means that I will continue to post in the normal sections.

Thanks
Bill

[Scarlett]

That is fine Bill. At least you would have that CHOICE.

I never read the adult joke section either!

[CenTexDave]

Hmm.....when this site originally started I donated money to Rick. He returned it a couple of weeks later, so I assumed it was not a strain on him to run it.
If some $$ are needed all you two have to do it ask. I'm sure many will donate.

[Scarlett]

Hmm.....when this site originally started I donated money to Rick. He returned it a couple of weeks later, so I assumed it was not a strain on him to run it.
If some $$ are needed all you two have to do it ask. I'm sure many will donate.

Hahaha...I wouldn't be so sure. I don't see a lot of donations pouring in for us brainwashed, liberal, censoring, hotheads! :thumbsup

[CenTexDave]

You'll never know unless you ask.

[Rick]

You know why your money was returned. I will not voice that in public now.

Money is not needed, not at all, but other sites offer a premium membership, so if people want to have a special section, I think that the question of offering a premium membership is a valid one.

But I would still need to see some rules first.

Regardless what the poll results are, I will not run a site that I am not proud of.

[BillK]

That is fine Bill. At least you would have that CHOICE.

I never read the adult joke section either!

I guess that I wanted to make that clear - this means that you will get my usual diatribes and when I post the usual people will come along and not restrict themselves to the passworded sections so we will have the discussions in two places.

If you say that political discussion have to be in the passworded sections then a rational discussion of thoughtful people who would like to hear other sides is not possible out in the open and would make the forum less interesting.

THAT was what I was trying to point out. One never knows when a thread is going rogue... You COULD have the passworded section and then when one goes rogue move it there - but I would be irritated if MY thread got hijacked and moved and I could no longer participate in my own thread?

Just some random thoughts...

Bill

[Scarlett]

Excellent thoughts Bill...the more I think about it...the more I am NOT in favor of an area like this on this forum.

But I have to leave the decision to Rick.

[Rick]

Bill, you have my guarantee that if this happens, the political discussions that exist now, will exist then.

Anyone who forgets that they are not in the "bash" section, will be dealt with. But then we will be back in the same boat with the whining about censorship and the rights that I am somehow paying to grant people. :rolleyes

[BillK]

Excellent thoughts Bill...the more I think about it...the more I am NOT in favor of an area like this on this forum.

But I have to leave the decision to Rick.

I guess that when someone starts a thread they can slant the VOTE above anyway that they want -

In the above case it is yes - give me what I want or NO because I am stupid or I don't care - I personally vote no but not because I like censorship. I am against that. I just think that I do not want to have to decide when I have a discussion that I want to put it behind closed doors or have it out in the open.

I think that rational adults should be able to agree that we have a DISCUSSION out here in the open. We can remain civil.

So - my vote is the option above that is not available - NO - but for different reasons. <grin>

Thanks
Bill

[THEMEANOGRE]

I say don't do it for a couple reasons
1: Do you really want to add all the accounting that'll necessarily have to go into a paid section?
2: As long as everybody remembers, with occasional prompting<hint, hint> the rules of basic public decorum, this is already one of the finest examples of an op-ed forum website.

[Rick]

Bill, the poll bothered me too. What some people call censorship, I call maintaining a standard.

It appears that what we have are a few people who do not want to be held to a standard.

I am waiting for Charles to define what he means by a "full contact political debate section."

[bbh]

I'm still cracking up over Rick being called a "liberal moron." Never thought I'd hear that one! Oh, wait...was that on another thread?

I've lost all ability to multi-task. :-s

[Rick]

:bluerofl It's not the first time.

[bbh]

:bluerofl It's not the first time.

That you've been called a "liberal moron," or that I can't multi-task???? :)

[Scarlett]

I was JUST about to pose that SAME question, bbh!

[Rick]

That you've been called a "liberal moron," or that I can't multi-task???? :)
You're teachers, not being able to multi-task means you only do 20 things at once. (that's my way of bringing the teacher an apple)

But the way I have seen the, "Rush Limbaugh regurgitating wannabe conservatives" acting here, what with their complete lack of respect for my property, stealing the intellectual property of others, and other things, the "Idon'thavetodecideanythingjustletthegovernmenttell mewhat'sbest" liberal moron label, is almost welcome. :bluerofl

[Night Owl]

I will not vote in this poll because of the way the responses are worded and I don't see a need for it. I don't have a problem with what Rick/Scarlett normally do and they know that. We have our disagreements but that happens in life. I point out what I think is wrong and they either agree or disagree.

I post my thoughts in a public forum and do not expect everyone to agree with what I post. That is life. Do debates get heated, yes. Do I get called names, yes. Have I called names, Yes. Will it happen again? There is about 100% chance that it will happen again.

Have I ever complained to Rick or Scarlett, NO; and I never will. I will never ask someone else to take care of something I am completely able to take care of myself. I guess that is part of posting my beliefs, I know people will not always agree (even Scartlett and I agree on some things).

As for Rick being called a liberal. I :bluerofl when I read that. I would guess he has been called alot (just for Scarlett) worse in his life. I guess he could be one but from his normal posts I would put him right of center on most things, but I don't personally know him.

[Rick]

Thank you, Night Owl. Well said.

[Sunshine]

I would not join this section of the forum. I think you already have a set up that works. It seems that there would be a limited few that would join this and they have the same views. If I can just predict the thread titles, "I hate Obama", "I hate Obama even more than you", "I hate Obama to infinity and beyond". Can't they just PM each other with their views? Spirited debate to me is exchanging of ides in a respectful manner. Calling each other names on an adult online forum is just creepy. I'm not subjecting myself or I think many others to paying for a forum that you have a minority view in and get bashed for it, that seems crazy and a form of self-hatred.

[Rick]

Can't they just PM each other with their views?
Or set a time to use the chatroom and talk among themselves.

[secretary]

Honestly, this whole thing of censorship and adding a "pay to say" thread is getting out of hand.

RICK OWNS THIS SITE! HE PAYS FOR IT WITH HIS TIME, HIS MONEY, AND HIS EFFORT. THEREFORE, HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS! If we don't like it, we leave or we get banned, that's that.

Here is an excerpt of rules from a (ridiculously successful) forum that I have frequented since 2002. They have a ton of rules that users respectfully follow mostly because they love the forum so much, they don't want to be banned for life!

And before anyone says it's a liberal/conservative forum, it's none of that!! It's a forum for everyone, just like CenTexTalk. =;

The rules in Red are pretty poignant to the ongoing issues here on CenTexTalk....



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Trolling/harassing **** Admins and Moderators: **** does not tolerate abuse of its maintainers in comments, in submitted links, or via emailing them directly. If you have an issue with a particular Admin or Moderator, **** itself, or ****'s moderation practices in general - email Drew directly. The address is ******. He is always available. He may not be able to respond right away, but he will get back to you. The comments sections in the threads are not the place for airing grievances, mainly because no one person at **** reads all of the over 30 million comments on the site. With that much going on all at once, important things can be and sometimes are overlooked. The bartender can't get your drink order right if he can't hear you.

And it continues...there is an enormous page dedicated just to rules pertaining to what can and cannot be done/said on the forum.

In comparison to these rules, I think Rick has let certain CenTex users get away with a LOT!!

[Scarlett]

Thank you, secretary. I agree, we have let a certain person go on for too long.
Rick knows my opinion on what to do about this...we met for lunch.
Then I came home and read the latest rant...to which I received 2 messages about while I was at the mall...I have had enough.

I can easily sleep tonight without allowing this to go on any longer.

[THEMEANOGRE]

I am probably the most even tempered person I know. Even I have grown weary of this. Phantom Warrior, it has been explained in nauseating detail why your question was deleted. The Administrators have explained that your post WAS NOT the problem, rather some of the responses were. If you are looking for more than that, give up your quest. You are not owed even as much as you have received. In continuing to push this, you are wearing on the good graces of OUR host's and the tolerances of your fellow posters.

[Night Owl]

:thumbsup:thumbsup

[Scarlett]

I will not vote in this poll because of the way the responses are worded and I don't see a need for it. I don't have a problem with what Rick/Scarlett normally do and they know that. We have our disagreements but that happens in life. I point out what I think is wrong and they either agree or disagree.

I post my thoughts in a public forum and do not expect everyone to agree with what I post. That is life. Do debates get heated, yes. Do I get called names, yes. Have I called names, Yes. Will it happen again? There is about 100% chance that it will happen again.

Have I ever complained to Rick or Scarlett, NO; and I never will. I will never ask someone else to take care of something I am completely able to take care of myself. I guess that is part of posting my beliefs, I know people will not always agree (even Scartlett and I agree on some things).

As for Rick being called a liberal. I :bluerofl when I read that. I would guess he has been called alot (just for Scarlett) worse in his life. I guess he could be one but from his normal posts I would put him right of center on most things, but I don't personally know him.

Rick and I read this on a blackberry at lunch today.
Thank you, Night Owl, for your well written response.

I am so done with this now...Rick knows my opinion of how I want this to end at this point.

[Rick]

Sorry, I have been MIA this afternoon, I took the advice of Natasha and demands from wife and took my eyes off the screen for a while. My more than able partner told me that I looked tired and kept an eye on things while I took care of some farm stuff. ;)

And sadly, it is done. We will moderate his messages and hope he lets it go, if not, then it is his choice.

I have a whole lot more to say, but it's time to let this go and go back to discussing things and not people or forum drama.

Secretary, thank you for the rules. I am afraid that we are going to have to go more indepth with our rules. We like to think that a good general rule is to act as you would in public or as a guest in someone's house. I hate the thought of too many rules. Takes the fun out of it...Oh well.

[Night Owl]

No more rules, please.

[Scarlett]

I don't understand a need for rules...
I say, practice common sense.

No means no.
Stop means stop.
Carry on means carry on.

[engteach64]

That's a great idea to have a thread for the hard core debaters. I can stay away and be blissfully oblivious to the arguements.

[prideworks]

I don't understand a need for rules...
I say, practice common sense.

No means no.
Stop means stop.
Carry on means carry on.

While the idea of a "smackdown" thread may seem tempting, I would vote against it for 2 reasons..
1. No boundaries means (to me) the possibility of the admins being held legally responsible for possible slanderous content. /:)
2. There are posters to this site whose intent (in my opinion) is to control this site and never be held accountable for their comments. They will complain about ANY rules set up by the administrators and will constantly try to undermine the goal for this site originally set up by Rick and Scarlett. For that reason, I feel the threads already in place, and the original mission of this site more than meets the need for heated debate areas. I'm not directing this towards the original suggestion, but methinks someone is trying to navigate a way to have this site shut down. Then again, I just say what the voices tell me to!! :bounce

[VooDooBaby]

Have people forgotten that there is another whole entire forum out there that allows everyone to act like a bored teenager? You can name call, bash, be as hateful as you please. No one seems to monitor that one.

I do frequent another forum that has a "Crossfire" section, and it clearly states "Where controversy reigns, so have thick skin", but even in there, the people don't get out of hand.

It IS all about common sense. Realize that not everyone has the same mentality as yourself. Also, last time I checked, no one had me handcuffed to this forum. If I didn't like this forum, I could leave and go to another one. CenTexTalk isn't the only forum out there, but it is one of the more comfortable ones.

[Voice-of-Reason]

There is no such thing as a "full contact" discussion without liability.

You better be real careful, Rick. You'll have a big mess on your hands when User1 threatens to go to User2's house to put a cap in his ass ... and in an even bigger mess if User1 makes good on his promise.

Food for thought anyway.

[Night Owl]

Just an idea. How about everyone take a break and not complain about everything posted here. I am sure that Rick and Scarlett would appreciate the peace and quiet.

[jackiebee65]

Now that sounds like a voice of reason. No offense VoR :)

[Scarlett]

Just an idea. How about everyone take a break and not complain about everything posted here. I am sure that Rick and Scarlett would appreciate the peace and quiet.

HELL YEAH! I have NEVER liked this Owl more....:-$

[Night Owl]

Just trying to do my part to ease your workload. The complaints would probable be cut in half if they would quit complaining about my posts. :)8-;

To know me is to Loooove ME!!!!

[CenTexDave]

Yeah, you're just soooooooooooo lovable.

[Night Owl]

See, even CTD loooves me!!!:)):))

[Night Owl]

BTW, if you have a problem with one of my posts, PM me. I don't bite, much!!!!!:)

[Mestral]

I didn't vote, nor did I post on this before, as I could not fathom the question even being asked. This forum, and the systems it resides on are not the property of the posters, we are invited guests. Invited to have discussions.

Rick said:
good general rule is to act ... as a guest in someone's house
Exactly. As I have already stated that in other forums I participate in, infractions of the rules result in:
1 warnings
2 vacation
3 banishment
So I now will call Rick a "liberal." But it is a good thing - at least good for the person he is moderating, instead of banishing. In this case, it means he (and the others who run this board) is generous and gracious.

[Night Owl]

When did the definition of liberal contain the word "gracious?"

The word generous is there but only in that they are generous with other peoples money and property, but NEVER their own.

[Scarlett]

When did the definition of liberal contain the word "gracious?"

The word generous is there but only in that they are generous with other peoples money and property, but NEVER their own.

Are we off topic again?
Remember, not EVERY topic needs to liberal bash!

[Night Owl]

Just replied to a post. I NEVER go off topic!!!!

[Rick]

People tell me how hard it is to read a topic that they might be interested in when they have to go through the same thing in thread after thread after thread and it isn't worth the time just to try to find a little information.

Opinions get lost in the banter.

I was also told this week, that people should realize that this is my/our hobby, and if someone takes the fun out of it, like what happened this week, they need to be blocked from the site.

I'm afraid that he is probably right. Usually, when someone has a difference with us, as has happened, and will happen again, we can just move on. There have been a couple of times when we simply could not reason with the person and we had to take action.

Some people are upset with us for standing our ground this week. From what I can tell, more people are upset with us for not doing it earlier and more often.

Someone said that this forum was "comfortable". That was a nice thing to say. It is a nice reflection on the community that assembles here.

We will not throw it away for the sake of a few who do not see that.

And for the record, Charles Grubb recommended that we delete this thread. But I wanted to see where it went and get other opinions on the subject.

[stormy]

Well, when you cannot reason with someone and get them to understand the direction you (Rick) and Scarlett are trying to go with the forum, then, ya...they should be put in moderation. If they still can't play nice, ban 'em. I see nothing wrong with that.

I really do understand the confusion that happened at first on the whole thread deleting thing, but once it was explained and made clear what transpired (I hadn't read the whole thread up to that point), it made perfect sense. If people cannot catch on after it's been explained and continue to repeat their drama over and over again....you should be a gonner.

This forum is comfortable. I'm glad we have it. A lot of good has come from it so far. Keep on keepin' on. You guys have done well!

[Charles Grubb]

Just replied to a post. I NEVER go off topic!!!!

Actually, going off topic is a good thing.
Staying too focused would be like talking to Jack Webb, aka, SGT Friday all the time!
Staying on topic might make things burdensome to some.
It could be too much structure at times.
If it goes too far off topic, it'll get ignored.
That would be like talking to a psycho (or me - :bluerofl ) all the time.
Overall, people tend to keep things on track.

[Rick]

Topics do transform. That is fine. But the hard stuff to drag through can be seen in this one, most of page five.

The thread that JoAnn posted about the Purple Heart for the officer. She seemed to want to know if that was something that the city should pursue. That thread immediately turned in a conversation about who actually shot the terrorist. That had nothing to do with the fact that the officer got hurt, so I deleted a bunch of those messages.

Does that mean that I hate the Constitution?

I have split threads. I did it to this topic yesterday, when Ralph tried to lighten the tone by asking, "How about those yankees?" Well, someone thought that was a cue to start talking about baseball in this thread, so he did. So I split the topic, and sent it to the sports section.

What I couldn't get across to Phantomwarrior was the fact that threads sometimes go bad and they get removed. Had we allowed him to post it again, which he tried, several times, it surely would have gone in the same direction. If someone can get him to understand that, I would appreciate it.

[THEMEANOGRE]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread go more than 5 pages without some amount of drift.

[Charles Grubb]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread go more than 5 pages without some amount of drift.

Five pages?
I'd say it happens no later than the second page! :)

[Rick]

Have people forgotten that there is another whole entire forum out there that allows everyone to act like a bored teenager? You can name call, bash, be as hateful as you please. No one seems to monitor that one.


I've seen the latest and greatest from the anonymous coward(s) residing in that toilet and I am not impressed.

[Mestral]

I will stand corrected on my english, I meant to say that "Rick is Liberal" and meant that as opposed to dogmatic or draconian. If people want a free flowing conversation (maximum drift), I would think the chat room would be ideal. As a middle ground, there are blogs galore, someone could start a team blog (not me, already got my plate full), but for the most informative discussions, I always look for forums. That is why I am here.

As far as "free speech," I would think anybody that considers the rules here to be burdensome or censorship, would be happier elsewhere.

[Night Owl]

When ya leaving?

[Rick]

That's not very nice. :)

[THEMEANOGRE]

Five pages?
I'd say it happens no later than the second page! :)

Charles, it doesn't ALWAYS happen by the 2nd page. I was being generous. And truly, I have never seen ANY thread go 5 entire pages without at least one drifting post.

[Mestral]

When ya leaving?

Not for a while, unless God wills it.
You will find I am quite thick skinned,
and as difficult as Dennis the Menace to run off.
(Now, if I could just remember how
to spell stuff) :p

[prideworks]

Not for a while, unless God wills it.
You will find I am quite thick skinned,
and as difficult as Dennis the Menace to run off.
(Now, if I could just remember how
to spell stuff) :p

the joy of revenge resides in patience....;)

[Night Owl]

Not for a while, unless God wills it.
You will find I am quite thick skinned,
and as difficult as Dennis the Menace to run off.
(Now, if I could just remember how
to spell stuff) :p

Good it is always nice having different ideas even if I don't agree with them. Stimulates the thought process.:))

[Scarlett]

Good it is always nice having different ideas even if I don't agree with them. Stimulates the thought process.:))

THANK YOU!

[Night Owl]

Gives me more ammunition to counter all the stupid posts by those with liberal and/or socialist thoughts.:)

[CenTexDave]

:))