PDA

View Full Version : Solar Panels



fchafey
November 17th, 2017, 7:42 AM
My neighbor is getting solar panels installed by a company out of Houston. Apparently the company here is pretty rigid in there practice. He wanted a couple extra panels on a different side to charge the batter back up generator. A couple things are interesting, once the panels are installed you no longer pay the eclectic company you pay the solar panel place for 20 years at a locked in rate. The amount of panels depends on your average electricity use over a year. The last thing is that the back up generator/battery storage will is to run the a/c/heat in the event of a total power outage. the panels run everything else for a defined period, which i don't know what that is. I guess if you are going to live there for 20 years, then what happens to your insurance, then consider hail....i don't know what do you all think of the Solar installation?

kantwin
November 17th, 2017, 8:10 AM
When I was in Killeen, one of my co-workers was tinkering with some solar stuff. He started with a solar powered fan in one of his roof vents. He said that it reduced the temperature in the attic by over 40 degrees, which I can believe, and he said his electric bill dropped quite a bit.
He did a few other things with solar panels and batteries, but I'm not sure what. I don't think he ever did a whole house bit.
{off topic}I did get a fan for one of my roof vents after talking with him about his solar one, but I opted for a thermostatically controlled hard wired fan. I added a switch to the circuit so I could turn if off if I wanted to. I put a battery operated thermostat that had indoor/outdoor readings, and put the outdoor wire up in the attic. When the fan came on, you could watch the temperature in the attic drop. It was amazing how well that worked. And, there was a savings realized on the electric bill.

fchafey
November 17th, 2017, 8:24 AM
Since you mentioned attic fan.....our A/C unit is in the attic. It is a Trane and there is a safety switch on the door that when it opens the unit shuts down. We learned this while I was deployed in 14/15. i did some research on my end and she call the AC company to come fix it. Trane had a maint recall for door warp age and it was soon fixed. We decided to put up an attic vent much like yours sans the thermometer. The wife found a great electrician in the Home Depot parking lot, i kid you not. He doesn't speak English and does great work, cash only. The unit is set at 104. I also put a tennis ball between the attic drop door and frame so when the garage door is opened cool air is vented up as well. Has helped out a ton and no more a/c issues.

We do a lot to keep our electric bill low. The air is set at 70 and unless you want your fingers broke by the wife you wont touch it. Our mid summer bill was 154.00. That is one of the reasons we are wrestling with solar panels as it might not be the answer for us.

CenTexDave
November 17th, 2017, 9:30 AM
Doesn't speak English; cash only. LOL - stop employing illegals. :)
From what I've read those solar panels where you pay the solar panel company instead of your electric provider are a big $cam.

Night Owl
November 17th, 2017, 9:50 AM
From everything I have read the ROI on solar panels is negative, meaning you lose money. The reason is the panel cost, maintenance and installation cost exceeds what you will save over the 20 year period. I have read that panels have a life of 15-20 years. Good luck.

Dagobert II
November 17th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Back in the day when I was REAL cheap (and single) I put the hot water heater on a timer. I figured I knew when I was gonna take a shower and it was generally at the same time every day so ... Thanks for the tennis ball idea - and the solar powered attic fan. My current one is hard wired with a thermostat. I know what you mean about the wife and the thermostat. Gone are the days of hot water heater timers. At least the wife likes to keep some of the rolling shutters closed thus reducing energy loss through the windows and a white roof is an inexpensive help as well.

kantwin
November 17th, 2017, 11:21 AM
When I pulled down the steps to the attic, the temperature would fall very rapidly - I wish I would have thought of the tennis ball trick. I guess it shows that the soffit vents weren’t enough.

fchafey
November 17th, 2017, 12:34 PM
From everything I have read the ROI on solar panels is negative, meaning you lose money. The reason is the panel cost, maintenance and installation cost exceeds what you will save over the 20 year period. I have read that panels have a life of 15-20 years. Good luck.

The lady that lived next to my mom in Brick, NJ. put solar panels on her house. Had them for 5 years and her husband died. She paid them off and showed me her electric bill in Jun of 16 when I was doing end of life stuff. Her bill was a 7 dollar credit. I know you get an instant tax write off, how much IDK, also NJ had some other incentives for solar stuff. I too am leery but also understand the big savings comes after they are paid off. The guy next door's will be finished today. I will watch and see. I don't think they are the way to go for me though.

fchafey
November 17th, 2017, 12:38 PM
Doesn't speak English; cash only. LOL - stop employing illegals. :)
From what I've read those solar panels where you pay the solar panel company instead of your electric provider are a big $cam.

Funny thing is she called three electrician's, my guidance was do it. All three were too busy, sooo when she met El Sparky, not only did he do the attic fan he also did our back porch ceiling fans and lights. He then refereed her to an irrigation guy that tied our A/C drain into the French drain, thus removing the swamp outside the A/C unit. And Americans wonder why......

CenTexDave
November 17th, 2017, 12:40 PM
Nothing against solar panels - I just find this "solar panel company" is the one who collects your electric bill. IMO, that is where the $cam is.

Ludwig
November 17th, 2017, 1:00 PM
When I pulled down the steps to the attic, the temperature would fall very rapidly - I wish I would have thought of the tennis ball trick. I guess it shows that the soffit vents weren’t enough.When one combines soffit vents with ridge venting, the attic temp pretty much remains at ambient outside temp. That has been my experience. My home is oriented East/West and thus the prevailing winds through the ridge vent serves me very well.

Ludwig
November 17th, 2017, 1:02 PM
From everything I have read the ROI on solar panels is negative, meaning you lose money. The reason is the panel cost, maintenance and installation cost exceeds what you will save over the 20 year period. I have read that panels have a life of 15-20 years. Good luck.A couple of years ago I calculated the amortization of a proposed solar panel installation and found that I would most likely expire before the cost of installation had been amortized. For a young couple planning to live in the home for at least 30 years, solar may be a reasonable purchase.

sojourner truth
November 17th, 2017, 3:01 PM
I know of at least 2 guys who have them and have disconnected them from the grid... Not sure why, but they did.

Mestral
November 17th, 2017, 5:43 PM
From everything I have read the ROI on solar panels is negative, meaning you lose money. The reason is the panel cost, maintenance and installation cost exceeds what you will save over the 20 year period.
I did the math 10 years ago and came to the same conclusion, but the panels and associated hardware has come down in price since then, so the ROI would be different.



I have read that panels have a life of 15-20 years. Good luck.
When I researched it 10 years ago, I found the same thing, and around here, hail storms would probably make it remain true, today. But in talking to people who live in less violent climates, they tell me the life expectancy of the panels has also gotten better.

I don't know if it pays to install solar panels or not (here in Centex, probably not) but I think it is worth looking into again.

skindog
November 20th, 2017, 9:11 AM
ROI time is dependent entirely on what the electric company will pay you for excess power generation and how much excess power you generate. If you only install enough panels to power 60% of your homes' electricity usage, it will obviously take longer than if you install enough to generate 90% of your usage. Some power companies charge more for daytime power usage as well, presumably to stick it to businesses that operate during peak usage times. Most electric companies here use "net metering", meaning your bill is the usage from the grid minus the power you generate, and since solar panels obviously don't work at night, you're using 100% from the grid at night unless you're using battery storage banks, which is a whole other ball of wax and an incredibly large chunk of change added to the installation costs.

I had investigated getting solar panels installed, but it would have taken me 17+ years to recoup the costs (in ideal weather conditions for that long), and I'm not sure I'll still be in this house for that long. Bartlett electric is pretty cheap, but that also meant they wouldn't pay me much for excess power I generated, hence the long ROI.

http://pvwatts.nrel.gov has a nice calculator to help determine energy creation, annual savings, etc. You'll need to know how much your power company will pay for power, how many panels and watts, the angle/pitch of your roof, etc. to use it. For example, 24 270-watt panels (6.48 kilowatts) in our area would generate ~9,795 kilowatt hours a year. At the time I was looking into it, Bartlett was paying $0.026 kWh, and I would have an excess credit of $254 a YEAR. If my average bill was $150/mo , I'd save $1,800 in utility bills plus $254 every YEAR. If my system cost $20,000 to install, it would take ~10 years to recoup the costs, not counting any income tax credits or deductions. Actually, I think the system I was looking to install was closer to $26k, and that was WITHOUT battery banks.

Ludwig
November 20th, 2017, 11:14 AM
That just reinforces what was said earlier. Solar is not a good investment unless you plan to live in the home in excess of about 20 years.

CenTexDave
November 20th, 2017, 11:20 AM
Even then I'm not so sure it would be that good of an investment. Your roof would need to be totally replaced before 20 years, and the extra labor to remove and reinstall these panels would definitely add another couple $$ to the
cost.

fchafey
November 20th, 2017, 1:14 PM
I asked why he hadn't gotten 35 year shingles put on before he decided to install the panels. He just kind of stared back at me. It's all finished now, doesn't look bad. It's not for us, LED light bulbs is a far as it goes. I have driven a couple of Tesla's and they aren't all that. I will say the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and the Honda Accord hybrid are nice.

sojourner truth
November 20th, 2017, 1:33 PM
Well, there are some folks who are eco conscious who do not care if an eco friendly investment saves them money or not...

All in all, eventually everyone will have to come to some sort of epiphany where power is concerned. Fossil fuels will only last so long.

Just the thought of that makes a car guy like me glad I will probably be long gone before that happens.

fchafey
November 20th, 2017, 2:36 PM
I was seriously looking at an electric car for running to and from work and all over the place, local. The Tesla's are good for 285-350 miles in a day, unless you get a Tesla 3, the others are 75k. The Nissan Leaf only good for around 100 miles, Honda isn't out yet, the BMW is muy expensive and the Chevy Volt is too plastic. The outlay vs the recoup is the issue of course.

mac
November 20th, 2017, 3:26 PM
Even then I'm not so sure it would be that good of an investment. Your roof would need to be totally replaced before 20 years, and the extra labor to remove and reinstall these panels would definitely add another couple $$ to the cost.

actually, if you're replacing a roof, moving the panels and attaching them will be the least of your costs......

I may replace sheathing and shingles next year........or that tile like that house up there toward the end of Elms has. I've always liked that......mac (or what used to be the end of elms)

Ludwig
November 20th, 2017, 6:24 PM
Fake plastic or metal tiles work well, but you would have to replace the entire roof and reinforce the rafters if you want to install authentic ceramic tiles or slate.

skindog
November 20th, 2017, 6:38 PM
Even then I'm not so sure it would be that good of an investment. Your roof would need to be totally replaced before 20 years, and the extra labor to remove and reinstall these panels would definitely add another couple $$ to the
cost.

I had just had mine replaced courtesy of the hail storms a few years ago and I got the 40 year shingles. Even if someone didn't have those, the solar panels would protect the roof and reduce wear and tear on the shingles beneath them.

Ludwig
November 20th, 2017, 6:53 PM
Just curious of how susceptible solar panels are to Texas hail... say golf ball size... falling for 20 minutes.

Mestral
November 20th, 2017, 7:14 PM
Just curious of how susceptible solar panels are to Texas hail... say golf ball size... falling for 20 minutes.
They claim they will withstand a lot of hail. Up to about 3" hail, in fact.
But there were a lot of them that didn't survive the storm here, a few
years back. Like many of the ones on the firing ranges on Ft. Hood.
Of course they were in denial, and kept using them. We just had to
replace lots of batteries every week. (Battery powered target lifters)

Ricky
November 20th, 2017, 7:37 PM
Just curious of how susceptible solar panels are to Texas hail... say golf ball size... falling for 20 minutes.

There's a retired CSM that lives in my neighborhood he has both metal roof and solar panels, the exposed metal roof has small dents in it and the solar panels were damaged from previous hail storms it's a sore subject with him to say the least I feel sorry for the guy he spent a lot of money.

Shotgun Jeremy
November 20th, 2017, 11:08 PM
Are the solar panels not protected with 1/2" plexiglass?

I like the solar paneled roof exhaust fans idea, as well as the tennis balls. I think I'll do both. I'm on the fence about solar panels for the rest of the house. They work great for specific applications such as keeping riding mowers charged during the off season, or keeping trailer winch batteries charged, but that's about my extent of experience with them.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

fchafey
April 22nd, 2018, 12:14 PM
Was out talking to the neighbor this morning, he was staring at his roof, so I asked if all was ok. He replied he has to figure out a way to clean the solar panels. Looking at them and after 3 months and a few West Texas Rain storms where it essentially rains dirt, they need to be cleaned. That is something he didn't consider when purchasing the panels. I asked where he is from because it doesn't rain dirt up north where i came from and he said small town outside Cincinnati, called Mason. Anyway he has 30 panels and it should be interesting to see what he does.

Ludwig
April 22nd, 2018, 1:32 PM
Was out talking to the neighbor this morning, he was staring at his roof, so I asked if all was ok. He replied he has to figure out a way to clean the solar panels. Looking at them and after 3 months and a few West Texas Rain storms where it essentially rains dirt, they need to be cleaned. That is something he didn't consider when purchasing the panels. I asked where he is from because it doesn't rain dirt up north where i came from and he said small town outside Cincinnati, called Mason. Anyway he has 30 panels and it should be interesting to see what he does.

I will gladly lend him my power washer. If he can get a 10' ladder he should have no problem reaching to the top of the panels from the eves if he cannot get on the roof with enough water to wash that dirt off. If he wants the washer, PM me his address (Killeen/Harker Heights only) and I will drop it off and pick it up when he's finished.

sojourner truth
April 22nd, 2018, 4:37 PM
Get some of that stuff from Fuller Brush as shown on TV... Just spray it on and everything that shouldn't be there is magically gone. Money back guarantee.:))

CenTexDave
April 22nd, 2018, 6:07 PM
Fuller Brush is still in business? I remember when their salesmen would go door-to-door selling brushes and other stuff.

fchafey
April 23rd, 2018, 8:42 AM
I will gladly lend him my power washer. If he can get a 10' ladder he should have no problem reaching to the top of the panels from the eves if he cannot get on the roof with enough water to wash that dirt off. If he wants the washer, PM me his address (Killeen/Harker Heights only) and I will drop it off and pick it up when he's finished.

He has an electric power washer and simple green, he wants to use a fine brush as well. I told him to go to Hammond McCraight downtown and get a 20 foot length of PVC and make one that way. The way his roof is sloped coupled with the slope on his short side of the property he has to get at it from the roof peak. Thank you though......

fchafey
May 28th, 2019, 4:11 PM
My neighbor across the street is getting solar panels installed. He talked to our street commissar on the corner, he got solar panels and he knows everything. Nice guy, but good grief. Anyway, he came up to me and asked why I wont talk to the salesman about the panels, they are a great deal and one can save almost 30K in 20 years. I told him the biggest reason is you don't own the panels, you agree to pay the owner for the electricity the panels generate. Also you have a 20 year contract and I told him I noticed he tried to sell his house 3 or 4 times over the last 10 years, well the buyer of the house must agree to have the solar panels and electricity rate of what is left on the lease. I don't want a "Second lien" on my house and after 20 years if you don't renew or upgrade they remove them, then you need a new roof to boot. The look on his face was priceless. I know all this from dealing with it a few years ago with my mom. All these trucks have Jersey plates on them, I told her I didn't think she should get into a 20 year financial commitment or pay out right for the panels as you still have an electrical commitment. I finally told him google 20 year solar panel contract and see what pops. They seem to be pretty popular, then again a lot of people liked Betamax and video discs too at one time.... as he was walking away he was muttering something in Spanish, I think he is a bit disappointed...oh well too late...people are amazing.

Ludwig
May 28th, 2019, 4:24 PM
I ran numbers on solar panels and discovered that they will not amortize their cost with the savings on electricity within my expected lifetime. I plan on finishing my life in my current home.

Night Owl
May 28th, 2019, 5:09 PM
If a person really looks at the numbers by the time the savings catch up with the expense it's time to have new panels installed. Just didn't make sense to do it and to top it off I would have to cut trees down to get the full "benefit." Ain't cutting down trees I like hugging them to much.:)) The feeling you get when the tree hugs back sends tingling feelings up your leg.

Dagobert II
May 28th, 2019, 7:44 PM
People really started installing panels in earnest when electric bills were rising dramatically a number of years ago.
However, over the past five years or so technology has made great leaps in energy conservation. Converting your home (https://www.dailyrepublic.com/projects/home-seller/solar-panel-leases-a-growing-problem-for-home-sellers/#) to LED lighting, replacing your old air conditioner and furnace with a modern, energy-efficient one, and even replacing your refrigerator, washer, dryer and TV will cost less than installing solar panels and could reduce your energy bill to less than half of what it was. And of course, you own those improvements and can sell them with the house.
As a result, if electric bills can be reduced so much, the cost/benefit ratio of solar panels starts to become more questionable. Buyers who are aware of this trend may have no interest in taking on a long-term obligation to pay a solar company, thereby reducing the number of buyers willing to take over your payments.

Source: https://www.dailyrepublic.com/projects/home-seller/solar-panel-leases-a-growing-problem-for-home-sellers/

I heard the California oblast is really pushing solar panels on people with all the subtlety of a Soviet tank in a cake shop. This sounds like a California idea and if true is a good indication of an idea sane people will want to avoid. Californians, however, must perform their socialist duty of achieving 100% renewable energy so rising sea levels don't submerge the streets of San Fransisco causing all the feces on the streets to float away to Washington where they might be mistaken for a California Congressman or Senator.

mac
May 28th, 2019, 11:44 PM
Fake plastic or metal tiles work well, but you would have to replace the entire roof and reinforce the rafters if you want to install authentic ceramic tiles or slate.

can't imagine why you'd have to replace the whole roof but you're right about the rafters, you'd have to dbl or sister up on them and the bents both.....mac

shawnricheson
May 30th, 2019, 10:52 AM
I ran numbers on solar panels and discovered that they will not amortize their cost with the savings on electricity within my expected lifetime. I plan on finishing my life in my current home.


MY ANALYSIS
The maintenance and upkeep are ridiculous in terms of MTBF alone.

$2270.00 / YR / 12 = $189.00 MO
My 2018 electric cost based on cooling/heating (average temp 72)
1600 sq feet under roof and running a business that uses a bunch
of electricity during repairs.

http://www.centextalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8268&stc=1

There is no possible way any company can represent a maintenance free install and the monthly cost reduction in electricity will offset KWH draw from a traditional power provider in any lifetime of any person for any house mounted on any type of roof..

It's workable if the solar grid could be built as a separate structure in 8-12 hours of direct sunlight annually with a battery storage building, then pumped into a home through a live or real time actuator switch.

I would sooner see 200 more invoicing agencies pimping out oncor, fighting for
your power invoice through traditional deregulation.

sojourner truth
May 30th, 2019, 5:48 PM
Well, it's like the shooper stalkers from the energy companies like Reliant that accost you as you walk in the store... I have used TXU since I moved here in 86, and have never had a problem with them. When you switch, you may save some initial money due to different corporate rates per KWH, but the real providers are ONCOR.... The real figures behind your electricity.

You figure this out quickly if you ever have an outage and call your provider. They will immediately remind you that they are just the provider, as in a clearing house for energy, and that any outages have to be reported to Oncor, who really is the party who will fix your problem.

And then you will feel the frustration of a customer that has to work through the red tape of corporate operations. Talking to a live person who actually cares is not going to happen.

shawnricheson
May 30th, 2019, 8:08 PM
Oncor is the real energy provider in Texas the rest just mark up your invoice from 4.4 cents per KWH to whatever deal you bang out with the biller.

YEP ...

sojourner truth
May 30th, 2019, 8:59 PM
YEP ...

Well, Thanks for editing my post, but the essence is correct in the end.

Reminded me of when we had our budget meetings at the airport and looked at expenditures to see what was costing us more money. Seems that most providers can arbitrarily raise their KWH prices without much interference and get away with it. One month the bill really spiked and we started to look into it. Seems the airlines were now using all electrical tugs and support equipment that used to be run off of jet A fuel. They were bragging about how they were "going green" while all the time they figured out a neat way to get Killeen taxpayers to fund their operation. I asked if there were soime way to monitor the individual usage on each carrier to send them a bill for the power they so generously decided to stick us the bill for. Seems that there is no inexpensive way to do that, and I suspect that the airlines knew that before they made the switch. It also seems that they had successfully used the same tactic nationwide by converting to green alternatives. What most folks do not realize until they think about it is, that green power (electricity) has to be produced somehow, and most of it is not with windmills or solar panels either, but by burning fossil fuels to get the electricity. So it is not as "green" as most folks think.

Oh, except in California where, I believe, it is produced by using Unicorn farts.:)

mac
May 30th, 2019, 11:38 PM
YEP ...

i'm confused. Why does't Oncor sell to me then? Why do I have to use Reliant?......mac

Ludwig
May 31st, 2019, 8:11 AM
i'm confused. Why does't Oncor sell to me then? Why do I have to use Reliant?......mac For the same reason that General Motors will not sell you a car directly, you have to go to a dealership. ONCOR is wholesale, the "providers" are retail.

fchafey
May 31st, 2019, 8:24 AM
And you have to pay attention to when your annual contract is up so you can renegotiate a low price other wise it automatically spikes back up to normal rates.

shawnricheson
May 31st, 2019, 8:27 AM
i'm confused. Why does't Oncor sell to me then? Why do I have to use Reliant?......mac

As you may recall a few years back, I sued Reliant because they jacked my rate from 10 cents
to 15 cents arbitrarily, because a contract expired and I refused to sign a new one.

Sort of their "we can screw you if you let your contract expire plan".

During discovery, I subpoenaed a bunch of stuff from the public utility commission.

I learned that Oncor is the true power provider in Texas, and all the rest of them do nothing
but markup the invoice from the base charge of 4.4 cents.

Regardless of whatever gorilla math the invoicer uses - it comes out to:

WHAT WE CHARGE YOU - MINUS - OUR WHOLESALE COST OF 4.4 CENTS PER KWH

Oncor does not deal directly with the consuming public, and sells only wholesale to the
billing agency in larger blocks of power.

So you should start MAC's power Company and sell only to registered CTT members
at 5 cents per KWH and save us all some cash.

gnatsum
May 31st, 2019, 11:58 AM
Been with TXU Energy for a few years. Once in a while, they'll stick a Whataburger coupon in the bill remittal. Bout once a year or so, they'll send me a free debit card with money on it, as a 'reward', Almost always, the card is only "good for" about $8.61 cents or so, and I often wonder why TXU doesn't just LOWER my electric bill for the amount of that 'gift' card...

sojourner truth
May 31st, 2019, 12:25 PM
When my power went out a couple of years ago due to a short in my master power box outside the house, Oncor removed my meter until I got it repaired... Then I had to call TXU and ask them to get the meter reinstalled. Then I discovered that I had to first get the install job OKd by HH code inspections ($45) and that got delayed when the inspector told home office we weren't home to answer the doorbell when he came by. I then had to remind them that without electricity, the doorbell does not work. Took another day to get him back out, 30 seconds to OK the install, and then another call to TXU... They told me I had to call Oncor to get the reinstall scheduled. After then discovering that all of Oncors numbers were unlisted unless you were a certified electrical contractor, and being told by TXU again that they couldn't make the call, I had an electrician friend call them. This was, of course, during the 105 degree days in July. By this time we had been sweltering for 4 days. Oh, and Oncor trucks driving by the house 3 times a day at least which made it even more frustrating.

2 days later, and after my wife had called Oncor screaming at them and the same thing for TXU, Oncor showed up with a new meter. Took all of 15 minutes to install the new meter. And the installer was pissed because we interrupted his schedule.

Point is, all the retailers are, are a clearing house for Oncor. Call it the price Oncor pays for not having to deal directly with customers.

Ludwig
May 31st, 2019, 1:49 PM
I always wondered how TXU could afford to give you "free nights." While researching rates I discovered the secret, they charge about 1/3 more per kWh. I have been very happy with reliant @7.6/kWh and no contract.

sojourner truth
May 31st, 2019, 2:46 PM
Don't forget Solar days.... Free nights and solar days. Nothing cheap or free however. It is all a sales gimmick. No free energy rides today folks.

Like when DTV offers you some "free" package and then 3 months later it ups your rate because you forgot to tell them not to continue. Get someone hooked on a product and then reel them in.

What we, in the recruiting business, used to call "bait and switch".

mac
May 31st, 2019, 4:58 PM
I always wondered how TXU could afford to give you "free nights." While researching rates I discovered the secret, they charge about 1/3 more per kWh. I have been very happy with reliant @7.6/kWh and no contract.

yeow, me too.....

sojourner truth
May 31st, 2019, 6:10 PM
Well, a lot of what people do not realize with solar and alternative power solutions is that they cost more than fossil fuel produced electricity. Mostly to pay for the construction and maintenance of the power production sites.

If America really got serious about clean, cheap energy they would opt for nuclear. Obama made the regulations so restrictive on power plant production so fierce that new plants are not being considered, much less built. Same thing for newer fossil fuel plants. There was a reason for this when he did it, and I am sure we all know what that was. Actually, getting more regulations and money were in there as well as a green agenda.

Mestral
June 2nd, 2019, 4:33 AM
Today's solar panels amortize really well in a market where electricity is $1.75 per KWH.
At 15 cents per KWH, not so much.

gnatsum
June 5th, 2019, 7:56 AM
Nuclear is unpopular as an energy source, as one has to do something with the plutonium as it is consumed, and if I remember correctly, the waste byproduct(s) is/are highly radioactive for DECADES...need to find a place to store it until such time as it it "safe enough" to store normally.
And reprocessing the waste only turns it into something that can used only for creating MORE nuclear weapons, I vaguely recall...

Ludwig
June 5th, 2019, 8:41 AM
According to MIT Technology Review, nuclear power costs $92 to $132 per megawatt-hour generated, solar power comes in at $72 to $86 per megawatt-hour, and onshore wind at $37 to $81 per megawatt-hour. Power from natural-gas-fired plants is cheaper than either nuclear or solar at $61 to $87 per megawatt-hour, thanks mainly to gas derived from fracking in U.S. deposits. This makes natural-gas plants, rather than nuclear plants, the leading option.

Mestral
June 5th, 2019, 1:18 PM
According to MIT Technology Review, nuclear power costs $92 to $132 per megawatt-hour generated, solar power comes in at $72 to $86 per megawatt-hour, and onshore wind at $37 to $81 per megawatt-hour. Power from natural-gas-fired plants is cheaper than either nuclear or solar at $61 to $87 per megawatt-hour, thanks mainly to gas derived from fracking in U.S. deposits. This makes natural-gas plants, rather than nuclear plants, the leading option.
Would love to drill down into those numbers in the study,
but don't have time to :(
The cost for solar is quite a (huge) bit low, compared to the
studies I did a few years back. Me-thinks, they fudged it.

mat
June 10th, 2019, 9:31 AM
Just from memory, Three Mile Island is the reason no new nuclear power plants are considered or built. I still agree with that.

mat

gnatsum
June 10th, 2019, 11:59 AM
Just from memory, Three Mile Island is the reason no new nuclear power plants are considered or built. I still agree with that.

mat

After Three Mile, there was a nuke plant in Texas that was finished (Glen Rose).

ExKilleencitizen
June 10th, 2019, 12:28 PM
Nuclear is unpopular as an energy source, as one has to do something with the plutonium as it is consumed, and if I remember correctly, the waste byproduct(s) is/are highly radioactive for DECADES...need to find a place to store it until such time as it it "safe enough" to store normally.
And reprocessing the waste only turns it into something that can used only for creating MORE nuclear weapons, I vaguely recall...

Store it in California, Oregon, New York, and New Jersey...multitude of problems solved 8-;

Rick
June 10th, 2019, 12:52 PM
The government wants to store it in Nevada and Nevada says, "Um, we don't produce this ####, why should we store it?"

mac
June 10th, 2019, 1:54 PM
Just from memory, Three Mile Island is the reason no new nuclear power plants are considered or built. I still agree with that.

mat

more folks were killed at chappaquiddick bridge than at three mile island......mac

mac
June 10th, 2019, 1:56 PM
Store it in California, Oregon, New York, and New Jersey...multitude of problems solved 8-;

if we're gonna store it on earth, we oughtta drop it in the mid-atlantic trench. personally, i think we oughtta send the stuff to another galaxy.....mac

mac
June 10th, 2019, 1:59 PM
Nuclear is unpopular as an energy source, as one has to do something with the plutonium as it is consumed, and if I remember correctly, the waste byproduct(s) is/are highly radioactive for DECADES....

not decades.....eons!

half life for the stuff is something close to 30 thousand years.......it's still deadly after 500,000 years.......mac

kantwin
June 10th, 2019, 2:17 PM
not decades.....eons!

half life for the stuff is something close to 30 thousand years.......it's still deadly after 500,000 years.......mac
Tested and proven, or theoretically deadly after 500,000 years?
I would venture a guess that it is theoretical . . . Not many humans have been around for 500,000 years, let alone humans that have been exposed to nuclear waste products produced by nuclear power plants.

mat
June 10th, 2019, 2:38 PM
After Three Mile, there was a nuke plant in Texas that was finished (Glen Rose).

All plants permited ( in the planning) and all plants under construction were alowed to be completed.
There may have been an addition 2 that were permitted afterward I didn't keep up with it.

mat
June 10th, 2019, 2:42 PM
more folks were killed at chappaquiddick bridge than at three mile island......mac

So........that means what?

mat
June 10th, 2019, 4:24 PM
After Three Mile, there was a nuke plant in Texas that was finished (Glen Rose).

i just checked, construction on the Glen Rose plants started in 1974.
Before Three Mile Island. They were completed in 1990 after Three Mile Island.
Wikipedia says they were the third to the last power reactors in come online in the U.S.
The last two to come online are in Tennnessee and were under construction in 1973. So there are no new nuclear power plants planned or built after Three Mile Island.

Ricky
June 10th, 2019, 5:45 PM
So........that means what?

Friends don't let friends ride with Ted

mat
June 11th, 2019, 8:10 AM
Friends don't let friends ride with Ted

Is Ted still driving in his.......condition?

fchafey
June 11th, 2019, 8:44 AM
There once was a senator from Mass, who went out in search of some.....yea, you've probably heard that...….:)