KISD Athletics...The Good and the not so good...

[RooDawg]

Congratulations goes to the Killeen High Lady Roos' Cross Country team who won the District 8-4A title!!

Congratulations goes to the Ellison Eagles Boys' Cross Country team who won the District 12-5A title!! Their second title in three years.

8-4A Boys' Cross Country Results for KISD
Killeen 5th - After 4 straight years of winning the District Championship.

12-5A Boys' Cross Country Results for KISD
Harker Heights 3rd
Shoemaker 7th

12-5A Girls' Cross Country Results for KISD
Harker Heights 3rd
Shoemaker 6th
Ellison 7th

Congratulations to the Lady Roos Volleyball team for securing a playoff spot!!
The Lady Roos will play Granbury at 6pm Tuesday at Hamilton. The Lady Roos finished third in District 8-4A with a 5-5 record and an overall record of 13-19.

12-5A Volleyball Results for KISD
Ellison (17-23, 7-7 in district for 5th) - The Lady Eagles lost in a "play-in" game to Temple. Both were tied for fourth place.
Harker Heights (15-15, 5-9 in district for 6th)
Shoemaker (13-21, 2-12 in district for 7th) - The Lady Grey Wolves did pick up their first two district wins in quite some time and did look better toward the end of the season with a young group.

[RooDawg]

Well KISD football is finished on the 5A level

Harker Heights finishes 5-5, 3-4 in district in 6th place
Shoemaker finishes 1-9, 1-6 in district in 7th place
Ellison finishes 0-10, 0-7 in district in 8th place

Killeen finishes the regular season at 6-4, 2-3 in district in 4th place and makes the playoffs...will play Granbury in Waco at Floyd Casey Stadium on Saturday evening.

[onetime]

Saturday playoff game, that sucks.

Harker Heights likely the only respectable 5A KISD team, where coaches actually prep for the team, I know someone is going to say the Shoemaker games were close, but that has more to do with the coaches not getting the kids ready mentally to play a team on a 30 something game losing streak. The kids likely looked at that game and were thinking it is going to be a rout and played to loose.

Killeen Volleyball may not and most likely will not win a game in district next year, the team has had the good luck of being in a 6 team district with two middle school volleyball programs.

Great job on the cross country squads for all teams.

Who does Killeen have in the second round? How good is Granbury? It stinks to lose in the first round as a football or basketball coach, with all the work that is put in only to get sent home earlier then you like. That is the one thing I like about the BCS, you may not be playing for the title, but you can go home as a winner.

[xzochye]

I know someone is going to say the Shoemaker games were close, but that has more to do with the coaches not getting the kids ready mentally to play a team on a 30 something game losing streak. The kids likely looked at that game and were thinking it is going to be a rout and played to loose.



That is a cop out statement if I have ever heard one. That mentality may have been present during the Bryan game but after that the other teams/coaches took notice. When a game ends that close the other coaches would have been stupid to not prepare their teams for the possibility that SHS is on the way to a comeback. 1 close game is luck, 3 close games and a win is a team learning, improving and growing.

[onetime]

That is a cop out statement if I have ever heard one. That mentality may have been present during the Bryan game but after that the other teams/coaches took notice. When a game ends that close the other coaches would have been stupid to not prepare their teams for the possibility that SHS is on the way to a comeback. 1 close game is luck, 3 close games and a win is a team learning, improving and growing.

Nah not a cop out at all, I do not know how often your around teenagers, or if you coach, or teach but if you do or did you would realize that kids are often susceptible to playing down to the opponent that they are playing or looking ahead to the team that they are facing the following week. While it is the job of the staff to convey the message to play the game and treat it like any other, kids read the papers and they watch the film. It takes a concerted effort by all members of the staff to keep the pressure on and create a false sense of urgency to win. With all of that said it takes a really good staff and a mature group of kids and after all of that stuff still happens in the Pros and in college let alone H.S. athletes. Technically speaking they had 3 games that were less then 7 points, if you break down the physique of that its the middle of the season and your playing a bad opponent. The Head Dog out there did a good job given what he was handed, although the program had no where to go but up. Hopefully for their sake he will stay there for a little while and not bail out of there the first chance he gets.

[sickofpc]

As for Shoemaker...do you think their history would be the same if the Showers kid would have stayed healthy?...I think not. He would have changed everything,...there would have been no losing streak, and Gray would still be coaching...but, that is the nature of the game, sometimes.. ........Onetime, you are such an obvious "coach" in the stands, if you even go to any games. You do not know anything about coaching, I do know that. You think the Ellison coach is terrible because of their record this year? He has forgotten more football, how to handle kids, and everything associated with a football program, than you have ever even thought of. The same is true of the other coaches you alluded to... ...I wonder if a team's record has anything at all to do with the talent level?...Hummm .... and.... I wonder how good Killeen's teams would be if they had the same coaches, and still just two high schools... They would probably have the same records, right?......

[sojourner truth]

As for Shoemaker...do you think their history would be the same if the Showers kid would have stayed healthy?...I think not. He would have changed everything,...there would have been no losing streak, and Gray would still be coaching...but, that is the nature of the game, sometimes.. ........Onetime, you are such an obvious "coach" in the stands, if you even go to any games. You do not know anything about coaching, I do know that. You think the Ellison coach is terrible because of their record this year? He has forgotten more football, how to handle kids, and everything associated with a football program, than you have ever even thought of. The same is true of the other coaches you alluded to... ...I wonder if a team's record has anything at all to do with the talent level?...Hummm .... and.... I wonder how good Killeen's teams would be if they had the same coaches, and still just two high schools... They would probably have the same records, right?......

Here's a deal for you, you can have Ellisons coach (and you're right, he's forgotten a lot about footbal). Most Ellison fans I know are ready to see him "move on". Their defense hasn't been worth a hoot for the past 3 years. In fact, you can have his defensive coach too. Hasn't been the same since Daniel Cobb left.

[sickofpc]

ST, I have a deal for you. You go coach a youth football team next year..and make sure you go undefeated. I have a feeling you don't know the diifference between a split 6 and a 52, or a wing t and a spread formation. Have you ever called a tackle trap on 3rd and 4?...Are you familiar with a jockey strap?...lol...probably not. You are criticizing some good men,..... with families, and lives that they have dedicated to coaching and teaching. Your mouth is directly affecting their lives, and that is such a shame......and yes, some of them that you criticize are very good coaches. If all you "experts" were really experts...you would be coaching...not criticizing....but, then you are soooo smart... It is your job to support and uplift...not criticize. You don't know enough about what you are talking about to criticize.

[sojourner truth]

ST, I have a deal for you. You go coach a youth football team next year..and make sure you go undefeated. I have a feeling you don't know the diifference between a split 6 and a 52, or a wing t and a spread formation. Have you ever called a tackle trap on 3rd and 4?...Are you familiar with a jockey strap?...lol...probably not. You are criticizing some good men,..... with families, and lives that they have dedicated to coaching and teaching. Your mouth is directly affecting their lives, and that is such a shame......and yes, some of them that you criticize are very good coaches. If all you "experts" were really experts...you would be coaching...not criticizing....but, then you are soooo smart... It is your job to support and uplift...not criticize. You don't know enough about what you are talking about to criticize.

You seem to know me well for someone who's never met me. I do know what a jockstrap is though, It would appear I'm chatting with one right here. LOL I have no doubt they may be good men, and no doubt they have good loving families. Despite the results, some of them might even be good coaches, although their record for the past few years might make one doubt that. I don't blow sunshine up the skirts of, or pretend to be yay yay when I see the record the team has had over the past few years. Oh, and about the criticism thing, I sit in the stands and hear it all the time. Maybe you aught to go up there and start going ballistic on the folks up there who are saying the same thing I am. Fans get a little upset when their teams lose. Gee what a revelation. Do I coach? No, not many do. Do I know the game? Not as well as a coach does. But I do know when a defense isn't getting the job done. And even Hellen Keller can see that. Now, you can be as pissed at me as you want to be, but the bottom line is the team has had the worst season this year and last in the 16 years I've been going to Ellison games ( My wife teaches there, and I bet if her pass/fail ratio was the teams win ratio, she'd have been canned a long time ago) and nothing changes that. Also, I don't remember calling myself an expert, you did that.All I have to know is the team record and it's past records, and that gives me all I need to criticize. Does the record break my heart? Sure does, 'cause I see the kids out there killing themselves to win each game. Maybe the talent wasn't available this year, maybe it was the coaching. Only thing I know is I sure hope they get it together soon, and that does fall on the coaches.

[sickofpc]

I think I do know you, or at least know what you are about. I'm glad you know what a jockstrap is, tho I doubt you have ever worn one.....As far as sittng in the stands and going ballistic, no...I don't do that. I just look at the critics, shake my head, and think how sad...how very sad. A revelation?..I have seen really good men, and very, very good coaches fired because of idiots that didn't know come here from sic em. ...when the kids they had just, to put it bluntly, weren't very good athletes and players. If you are not an "expert",...keep quiet. Impossible, I know, but..an idea, nonetheless. ....Your last statement, it all falls on the coaches....you are partially right. That, in itself, isn't right....but, I do know that is the way it is. ...and..your statement about your wife...I would be willing to bet that if she gave all of her students exactly what they deserved, and didn't "fudge" on a lot of grades...things wouldn't be very good for her. A coach can't "adjust" or fudge...the scoreboard is there for all to see. I asked a friend of mine who is a very successful college coach what you had to do to be a successful college coach...he said the first thing was to recruit the best players....then...go from there. Bigger, smarter, faster, more athletic parents always seem to help a high school program, for some reason. ...Every single critic I have heard in the stands, truthfully, was never, ever, an intelligent, great athlete. They were always wantabes who got better with every year they were out of school......just saying.

[Night Owl]

Wow what a post. excellent spin. You state a lot of things that are facts in your mind, but are not really facts at. They are just your opinion. To hear you say it, you played a lot of sports in your school days and your teams won state every year. What school was that? And just because you can sit in the stands and not be a critic makes you the expert. :)):)) Just reading what you wrote. To dang funny.

[sojourner truth]

I think I do know you, or at least know what you are about. I'm glad you know what a jockstrap is, tho I doubt you have ever worn one.....As far as sittng in the stands and going ballistic, no...I don't do that. I just look at the critics, shake my head, and think how sad...how very sad. A revelation?..I have seen really good men, and very, very good coaches fired because of idiots that didn't know come here from sic em. ...when the kids they had just, to put it bluntly, weren't very good athletes and players. If you are not an "expert",...keep quiet. Impossible, I know, but..an idea, nonetheless. ....Your last statement, it all falls on the coaches....you are partially right. That, in itself, isn't right....but, I do know that is the way it is. ...and..your statement about your wife...I would be willing to bet that if she gave all of her students exactly what they deserved, and didn't "fudge" on a lot of grades...things wouldn't be very good for her. A coach can't "adjust" or fudge...the scoreboard is there for all to see. I asked a friend of mine who is a very successful college coach what you had to do to be a successful college coach...he said the first thing was to recruit the best players....then...go from there. Bigger, smarter, faster, more athletic parents always seem to help a high school program, for some reason. ...Every single critic I have heard in the stands, truthfully, was never, ever, an intelligent, great athlete. They were always wantabes who got better with every year they were out of school......just saying.

Well, at least I'm glad you never vote. Having never run for or held an elected office, or been the President of the United Staes, I suppose you aren't qualified to have an opinion concerning how the US is run. Hope you're rooting for Obama. According to your logic since he's the "coach" we ought to be cheering him on despite his record. Fans are going to have opinions, and they are going to get upset when their teams lose. Maybe the spirit police can come arrest them for you. No ones asking to win every game. One would have been nice. When that doesn't happen, and when a team seems to be in a solid trend for losing, it's time to evaluate the program. That starts with the coach and works it's way down. Coaches who don't win are replaced. Ask the Wolves. So, what you're saying then is that no matter what the record is, we should never say a bad word about the coaches because they are good men. Good men lose their jobs every day because they can't get the job done. Not saying I want to see anyone lose a job. Just get the job done. Oh, and by the way, my wife has been advised a number of times about failing a higher number of students than they think is right, but never fudges the grades. She has principals. But then again, she did have at least ONE student who passed last year. Oh, and by the way, I don't have to be quiet. If you don't like what I'm saying, I suppose you'd better go somewhere else or ignore the posts slick.

[onetime]

I think I do know you, or at least know what you are about. I'm glad you know what a jockstrap is, tho I doubt you have ever worn one.....As far as sittng in the stands and going ballistic, no...I don't do that. I just look at the critics, shake my head, and think how sad...how very sad. A revelation?..I have seen really good men, and very, very good coaches fired because of idiots that didn't know come here from sic em. ...when the kids they had just, to put it bluntly, weren't very good athletes and players. If you are not an "expert",...keep quiet. Impossible, I know, but..an idea, nonetheless. ....Your last statement, it all falls on the coaches....you are partially right. That, in itself, isn't right....but, I do know that is the way it is. ...and..your statement about your wife...I would be willing to bet that if she gave all of her students exactly what they deserved, and didn't "fudge" on a lot of grades...things wouldn't be very good for her. A coach can't "adjust" or fudge...the scoreboard is there for all to see. I asked a friend of mine who is a very successful college coach what you had to do to be a successful college coach...he said the first thing was to recruit the best players....then...go from there. Bigger, smarter, faster, more athletic parents always seem to help a high school program, for some reason. ...Every single critic I have heard in the stands, truthfully, was never, ever, an intelligent, great athlete. They were always wantabes who got better with every year they were out of school......just saying.

Without making this a personal issue sir I think their are a few questions you should ask yourself on Ellison.
Question 1 Have they been competitive? The 2011 Ellison Eagles have lost this season on a clip of about 4 to 5 touchdowns
Question 2 Is it the kids or the coaches? The kids are the same Ellison kids they have had over the past decade that were competitive, I think the fact that 4A Killeen is beating them these days also speaks to their woes. They switched over their offense in the middle of the season. A Wing T coach is a Wing T coach is a Wing T coach. It is a process to switch from that to a completely different offensive scheme.
Question 3 Is their a plan of action for the future? There has been a steady decline their since the last coach left and buddy got the job, I think next year will be the rock bottom for the school.

Lastly, reassignment or firing is a reality in coaching if you are anywhere that is worth a darn or has that potential, to sit here and say that people no nothing about this or that is besides the point, anyone can look at the team over the last four years and say wow that is a systematic decline in the product that performs on the field. I guess if your child was in a class and learned nothing, or if the guy preparing your food only sometimes cleaned the prep station, or the police officer only solved cases when the evidence was in his face we as a community should not think of other options, but keep them because they are good guys with good families. Unfortunately for you and I that is not how the system works, but for Coach Mcbryde we should reconsider, but I probably should not comment on the Officer or the Chef because I supposedly know nothing on the professions. I also invite you to PM me anytime you want to discuss football, I look forward to that message about a split 6, 52 defense, wing t, or any other offensive or defensive scheme that most people do not run these days.

[Iteachtoo]

What do you mean even "4A Killeen even beating them speaks to their woes"? There are many 5A teams that could not have survived in Killeen's 4A district. You said some fightin words sir!!!!!!!!!!!

[onetime]

What do you mean even "4A Killeen even beating them speaks to their woes"? There are many 5A teams that could not have survived in Killeen's 4A district. You said some fightin words sir!!!!!!!!!!!

My point was that player for player, Ellison while Killeen has been 4A has had more talent at the skilled position and DLine, with more depth then Killeen.

[CenTexDave]

Killeen will have a chance to show off their latest talent next season when they get back into 5-A.
Still think it will be a weak district. A&M and Bryan leaving and adding the Roos and probably Hewitt Midway doesn't do a thing for it. IMHO this is what killed Cove - after those extremely tough blowouts against Shoemaker and Ellison, the Dawgs forgot what real competition is. Hell, let's add Salado and Florence also. That'll help improve the district.
12-5A has been weak for the past two years. Ain't like the old 13-5A or whatever it was, when we had Waco in it.

[onetime]

I disagree, Bryan has been on a slow decline in recent years with the opening of the new school. In its place, Temple has resurrected it self from the ashes. Hewitt Midway looks good and I think most would agree that the school is a toss up as far as competition within the district between them and Consol. If I am not mistaken the RG3 bulldogs struggled to beat Hewitt back in the day. While the Competition is certainly a valid point I think its mute when Lake Travis seems to find folks to blow out yearly in and out of district.

[kantwin]

Lake Travis kids are corn fed. . .

[sojourner truth]

Lake Travis kids are corn fed. . .
Evidently, so are their coaches. ;)

[sickofpc]

Owl,...try to check your grammar, spelling, and "verbage", before you criticize me. Deal?...Did you give any facts? Never mind, I know your type. You are an expert at everything, right? ....Onetime, you think that Ellison has as much talent as they had when Robert Walker was coach?....or when Coach Beseda had some of his better teams? (Coach Beseda went 0-10 one year, didn't he?)....If you do, you need to have a reality check.....Do I think there are bad coaches? Sure. ...Do I think we have some bad policemen, teachers, parents, politicians, ..fans?...Sure. ....All I am saying is that I get tired of the loudmouthed critics that don't know what they are talking about. ...Is this just my opinion? Yes, it is. ...Do I know a lot about football and athletics. Yes, I do. ....and yes, I was a pretty fair player....football paid my way through college. My high school was and is known for winning and has produced some outstanding football players...Parents even moved into our district, just so their sons could play for my high school.....Some of the most influential people in my life were coaches. One of those coaches was fired my junior year in high school because we lost two games that some of our influential "fans" thought we should have won, and he was a great coach and a great man.........I had some great coaches, and some not so great ones, both in high school and college. .....Have I seen some coaches that I thought should be fired? ..Yes, I have. Is change good sometimes?..Yes, it is. Again, all I am saying is that I hate to hear and read the loudmouthed critics that don't have any idea what they are talking about....I don't know the Ellison coach personally, but I do know the situation that he was in this year. ....N O, onetime, and ST, ..tell you what...you get yourself some personal coaches...then let's have a golf match, pool match, basketball shooting contest, swimming race, and baseball and football throwing contest, ...and football kicking contest.......and put a lot of money on each contest. Certainly, if you have great coaching, you can be successful and win all of the contests, right?..lol...I will answer that for you..No...you can't. ...Onetime, do you really think Ellison had more talent than KHS?...Really? Onetime, you sound like you do know something about football..., but, ..you think the talent level was the same this year as it has been the last 10 years?..Nothing against the kids, they tried hard and wanted to win...but, let's be realistic. I didn't see any Cobb, McCray, Winbush, Harris, or numerous other past players that Ellison has had in the past on the field this year....One last thing...ST(and I wonder why you have that fem name), and, uhhh, I am not "slick", btw, sweetie.... if your wife is a great teacher, which I am sure she is, ....uh, shouldn't all of her students be getting A s?..Does she actually have students that fail?..FAIL??? Is it her fault when they do fail?.... If she is a great teacher, which, again, I am sure that she is, shouldn't all of her students succeed every day on every test and every report card with A s? After all, a teacher is a coach, as a coach is a teacher, correct?....and....I am sure she has never, ever "fudged" on a grade...ever. I am sure that every grade she has ever given has been absolutely correct and accurate. That's really good.

[onetime]

Owl,...try to check your grammar, spelling, and "verbage", before you criticize me. Deal?...Did you give any facts? Never mind, I know your type. You are an expert at everything, right? ....Onetime, you think that Ellison has as much talent as they had when Robert Walker was coach?....or when Coach Beseda had some of his better teams? (Coach Beseda went 0-10 one year, didn't he?)....

At what point did I ever say that I thought the teams had the same talent level? Seeing that there are two more schools to attend in KISD and really three if you discuss the added pressure that cove has put on area move ins. I said for the talent that they have is not so far off from Killeen and Heights that they are not even competitive these days. They lost on average this season by 28 points. Shoemaker with a new staff was about competitive in most of their games with a brand new head coach.

[onetime]

One of those coaches was fired my junior year in high school because we lost two games that some of our influential "fans" thought we should have won, and he was a great coach and a great man.........I had some great coaches, and some not so great ones, both in high school and college.

You comparing you coach who lost two games to Coach Mcbryde? That is like comparing Coach Cooper from Ohio State that got fired because he could not beat Michigan to Coach Dodge at North Texas. One was winning at a high rate while the other was getting blown out at a high clip. One was in or dominated every game the other was getting dominated every game. Eventually people look at the program as a joke.

[onetime]

Onetime, do you really think Ellison had more talent than KHS?...Really? Onetime, you sound like you do know something about football..., but, ..you think the talent level was the same this year as it has been the last 10 years?..Nothing against the kids, they tried hard and wanted to win...but, let's be realistic. I didn't see any Cobb, McCray, Winbush, Harris, or numerous other past players that Ellison has had in the past on the field this year....One last thing...ST(and I wonder why you have that fem name), and, uhhh, I am not "slick", btw, sweetie.... if your wife is a great teacher, which I am sure she is, ....uh, shouldn't all of her students be getting A s?..Does she actually have students that fail?..FAIL??? Is it her fault when they do fail?.... If she is a great teacher, which, again, I am sure that she is, shouldn't all of her students succeed every day on every test and every report card with A s? After all, a teacher is a coach, as a coach is a teacher, correct?....and....I am sure she has never, ever "fudged" on a grade...ever. I am sure that every grade she has ever given has been absolutely correct and accurate. That's really good.

Lastly, I think the Major point your missing is the systematic failure that has been in place at the school with and without Cobb. Is their a Winbush, Harris, Thomas at EHS? No, but is there a Iglesias, Benford, Patterson, or Carpenter at KHS? No, but they are competitive. Can you even come close to that at EHS? They are 8-22 in a considerably weak district with a weaker version of Temple then in the past, Belton who were off this year, Heights, Bryan who also had a down year, and shoemaker. If we go even deeper, those 8 wins were against the win less (2) gray wolves, the 1-9 Wildcats, the (2) 3-7 knights. Let's be clear here when I say that no one is giving an unbiased opinion on this team when you go to a game and watch they had two games in which they lost by less then one score, TWO!!!! I am sure the staff as a whole is fine, but the captain of the ship has definitely steered them in the wrong direction. Lastly are you really going to sit at your desk and type away that the kids that go to RANCIER and FAIRWAY, which Killeen pulls its kids from are the same kids or clientele that ELLISON GETS? ?????? C'MON PAL?? RANCIER may have 13 under nourished kids on the sideline against some of the overpopulated middle schools that Ellison and Heights gets that have 50 or 60 kids on an A Team game. Do you think KIlleen starts a little behind in comparison? I think so, Ellison has issues if you do not see that then you need to get your eyes checked.

[sickofpc]

Thanks, but my eyesight is 20 20. Those little kids at Rancier?..lol...Those coaches at KHS must be super coaches, to coach such poor talent. Let's see now...KHS in football, basketball, and track thru the years...hummm..amazing with such "poor" feeder schools. If you talk to any coaches in the system, they will tell you what middle schools produce the best athletes year in and year out..whether it be in basketball, football, or whatever. Let me give you a little hint..most coaches in KISD would love to have Rancier and Smith feeding their programs. Give me 15 great athletes and you take 40 not so great athletes...any day. BTW, I beieve it was you that mentioned that the Ellison coach changed offenses in the middle of the season, and how dumb that was? I guess that Denver coach is a really stupid guy for changing his offense for Tebow, huh...Nothing I could say could convince you that you just might possibly be wrong. You are probably the guru of coaching...you or any of the other critics could probably have won , what...uh 8 or 9 games this season at Ellison. Wish you would get a coaching job...would love to sit behind you and criticize your every move. ......Shoemaker? Gray would still be there if Showers would not have been hurt. The new coach did a good job this year, apparently. Let's see how he does the next 3 years. I wish him all the success in the world. ....Tell me, PAL, do you think you know more about coaching than the Ellison coach does? How many experts do you know in the stands?..just a question....As I said earlier, PAL, sometimes a coaching change is good and necessary, but, I just hate to hear people that aren't experts talking like they are experts. That is my point. Believe me when I say that I do know a little about coaching and I know about talent. I don't think some of the self-proclaimed experts in the stands do.....One last point, I have a daddy that works for me, occasionally, and tells me every chance he gets about how great his son is. I just smile , nod my head, and listen, until he starts berating the coaches. Not one, but all of them as a group. Then, I politely let him know that he really doesn't know what he is talking about,...and, to put it bluntly, his son isn't very good. The boy is a nice kid, and wiser than his father in many ways, but, he is not a great football player.

[sojourner truth]

OK we got your point, it's all the kids fault. Truck on Eagles.

[onetime]

Thanks, but my eyesight is 20 20. Those little kids at Rancier?..lol...Those coaches at KHS must be super coaches, to coach such poor talent. Let's see now...KHS in football, basketball, and track thru the years...hummm..amazing with such "poor" feeder schools. If you talk to any coaches in the system, they will tell you what middle schools produce the best athletes year in and year out..whether it be in basketball, football, or whatever. Let me give you a little hint..most coaches in KISD would love to have Rancier and Smith feeding their programs. Give me 15 great athletes and you take 40 not so great athletes...any day. BTW, I beieve it was you that mentioned that the Ellison coach changed offenses in the middle of the season, and how dumb that was? I guess that Denver coach is a really stupid guy for changing his offense for Tebow, huh...Nothing I could say could convince you that you just might possibly be wrong. You are probably the guru of coaching...you or any of the other critics could probably have won , what...uh 8 or 9 games this season at Ellison. Wish you would get a coaching job...would love to sit behind you and criticize your every move. ......Shoemaker? Gray would still be there if Showers would not have been hurt. The new coach did a good job this year, apparently. Let's see how he does the next 3 years. I wish him all the success in the world. ....Tell me, PAL, do you think you know more about coaching than the Ellison coach does? How many experts do you know in the stands?..just a question....As I said earlier, PAL, sometimes a coaching change is good and necessary, but, I just hate to hear people that aren't experts talking like they are experts. That is my point. Believe me when I say that I do know a little about coaching and I know about talent. I don't think some of the self-proclaimed experts in the stands do.....One last point, I have a daddy that works for me, occasionally, and tells me every chance he gets about how great his son is. I just smile , nod my head, and listen, until he starts berating the coaches. Not one, but all of them as a group. Then, I politely let him know that he really doesn't know what he is talking about,...and, to put it bluntly, his son isn't very good. The boy is a nice kid, and wiser than his father in many ways, but, he is not a great football player.

Are you from Killeen? What 15 great kids is Rancier producing year in and year out? I guess the staff at Killeen are Super Coaches then, for every one good kid that killeen gets Ellison gets 1 and a half. If Killeen gets 14 next year Ellison will have 21. Rancier may have a total of four kids that are developed enough to play Freshman football, where the other schools that go to Heights, and Ellison have about 15 to 20, but I can no longer continue this conversation though based on what you said about the feeder schools in Killeen. Good day to you sir

[sickofpc]

Thank goodness....and to answer your question, no, I'm not from Killeen, just lived here the last 20 years.... If you truly believe what you said about the feeder schools...ask a high school football coach,... see if the say the same thing you said about the feeder schools,.... and Ellison having 150 percent more good kids than KHS. ....and...finally, I guess you are saying... it is all the coaches fault?...Good evening to you, sir.

[onetime]

It is never 100% on the coach in High School, but the coach there, at that school, right now, deserves the lion share of the blame for what is currently happening. I also forgot to mention your comparison of changing offensive schemes between the Ellison Eagles and the National Football League's Denver Broncos. Do you see the problem with what you said their? Denver is a team with grown men that are paid a handsome salary. The Ellison Eagles are 14-18 year "boys" do I need to go further? In the Pros the transition, while still difficult is much smoother due to the clientele being richer in experience and maturity. Uhm yes ask a High school coach to rank the Middle Schools across KISD for all of the sports and I guarantee you that UG, PA, and LH would rank up there at the top with Rancier being somewhere towards the bottom. I wish anyone with a working knowledge on the topic would jump in here.

[sojourner truth]

I don't think it would make much difference onetime. As much as I enjoy going to the games, I can only watch a car wreck for so long. Besides, I've never been a coach so I'm not qualified to go to the games. Plus, I'm getting tired of wasting time on Sicko. His searing logic, singular intellect, and finely honed debating style are too much for me. :))

[sickofpc]

Humm....saw in the paper today where KHS 's JV team was 10-0 and District Champions for the second year in a row. They are doing pretty well with those poor little kids they are getting from their bad, deplenished feeder schools....

[sickofpc]

Ms Truth, thanks for the compliments...and Onetime...it wouldn't make a bit of difference if I told you that I coached football for 20 years....would it....and no, I was never fired...but, I saw some very, very good men and coaches lose their jobs unjustly because of the "expert" critics. ... I DO have a working knowledge of the subject. ....... It wouldn't matter if I told you that I know many of the KISD Varsity coaches, would it...because you, who I doubt ever ran out of the tunnel...are the expert....... I just don't like people who don't know what they are talking about affecting people's lives. Do coaching changes need to be made sometimes ? Of course. Do some coaches get fired unjustly because of politics or loudmouth know-it-alls? Of course. I just hate when the latter happens.....When I was ten years old, my mother, dad, brother and I went to a semi-final game that our high school was playing in..we were behind two touchdowns in the 3rd quarter....one of the local know it alls was berating our players and coaches....loudly of course...just in front of us about four rows down. I remember my mother telling my dad, "I have had all of his mouth I am going to listen to"..and walked down the bleachers, got in front of this guy, and told him..".____ _____, if you open your mouth one more time to criticize our coaches or our kids, I'm going to come back down here and slap your face or hit you over the head with a shoe, I haven't made up my mind which. I am tired of listening to your stupid, critical mouth. Now shut it up!"...and...he did. ...I will never forget that. I was actually a little scared when my mother did that,...but, I was proud of her. I still am. ...Tell you what, you and Ms Truth ought to get together, call Coach Mc, and any other KISD coaches that need help, and schedule a meeting with him. Go up to the field house , meet with him, go over x s and o s , talk about personnel, motivation, uniforms, scheduling, film study, middle school programs, asst. coaches, workout schedules, off season, conditoning, strength work, scholastic concerns, clinics, coaching school programs, offensive and defensive schemes, secondary coverages, the kicking game, summer workouts, 7 on 7, coaches' work schedules during the summer.......everything. I am sure that he, or any other KISD coach, would appreciate it.

[onetime]

Humm....saw in the paper today where KHS 's JV team was 10-0 and District Champions for the second year in a row. They are doing pretty well with those poor little kids they are getting from their bad, deplenished feeder schools....

You do not have a clue pal, you just have no clue. So I will explain it, Killeen virtually has 5A numbers I guarantee you they have the ability to play a JV A game and a JV B game. The majority of teams they played this season were 4A schools with likely less then half the amount of kids on their JV that Killeen has. Honestly it is like any Division 1 team rolling up and playing any division 2 team in a game where the majority of the time your going to win due to the numbers. Stephenville likely puts any one that is worth a damn on the varsity for their special teams game. Leaving scrubs on the field for the J.V. IS THEIR NO ONE ON THIS FORUM that has a CLUE????

[onetime]

Go up to the field house , meet with him, go over x s and o s , talk about personnel, motivation, uniforms, scheduling, film study, middle school programs, asst. coaches, workout schedules, off season, conditoning, strength work, scholastic concerns, clinics, coaching school programs, offensive and defensive schemes, secondary coverages, the kicking game, summer workouts, 7 on 7, coaches' work schedules during the summer.......everything. I am sure that he, or any other KISD coach, would appreciate it.

C'mon pal seriously that is what should have been done by Tom, last year and they should definitely being having that conversation this year if they have not had it already.

[RooDawg]

if you want to know how a coach is doing for his program just ask the kids that are playing for him...Ask the ellison kids, ask the shoemaker kids, ask the heights kids, and ask the Roo kids...if the kids arent going to play for a coach then you are going to see some poor exhibition on the field...could ellison's display this season on the field demonstrate some discontent with their coach? And does shoemaker's play on the field demonstrated some respect and loyalty to their coach? I am not sure but that would be a start as an Athletic Director of the district, in my opinion.

[sickofpc]

Humm....I wonder how kids are going to feel when they are losing.Hummmm..... Probably tickled to death and happy with the world...and their coaches, who they hear lambasted and blamed at every turn, right? I know several of the Ellison players..they are good kids, and had, for the most part, good attitudes about their team...but, you could tell that some people were giving them great reasons to fail. One kid said something to me about, "well, the coaches"...and I stopped him right there. I asked him, did he tell you guys to fumble three times the other night? Did he tell you to run a 5 rather than a 4.6 in the 40? Did he tell you to slip those tackles?..Did he teach you wrong?....The boy looked down, and said no...then we started talking about attitude, trying harder, and doing the best they could do, holding their heads up and knowing they were doing their very best...always. I guess I was wrong. I should have told them that it was all that stupid coaches fault, given them built in blame and a great excuse for them to use if they lost..... Roo, there is always new hope and enthusiasm when a new coach comes in..always. I've seen it several times, but, that lasts only so long. I hope Shoemaker has all kinds of success in the coming years, along with Ellison, and Harker Heights, and Killeen, all of them. Onetime, you have convinced me...you know more about football and athletics than I do. Since you are so smart, don't talk about the coach and badmouth him just here and to anyone that you can get to listen to you. Go talk to him..face to face...man to man. Don't just talk about him behind his back. Would you like that done to you? Go talk to him MAN to MAN...Would you do that? I can answer that..NO, you wouldn't and you won't. You will just keep talking, and talking, and talking to anyone that will listen,..except the coach himself. . ...Sorry you don't think the Roos JV going 10-0 doesn't mean much to you..go tell those kids, coaches, and parents your opinion on that. I am sure they will all agree and appreciate your opinion..........Again, all of these years,..... when KHS has been soo successful, in 5A.... and 4A, they did it with those poor little kids from Rancier and Fairway, those terrible feeder schools, the ones you said were near the bottom of all the middle schools in KISD. That is just unreal, isn't it?........... PS My offer for you to get good coaches for yourself in those contests I mentioned earlier is still on the table. Then we will have the games, the competitions..and...loser keeps quiet. Deal?

[sojourner truth]

It's Mr. Truth for one thing. Sojourner Truth was a childhood hero of mine, and I liked the name. Since I won't be going to Ellison games next year, it's really none of my business what the coach does. I never talk bad about the coaches at the game. I wait until after I get home. No senese in upsetting people at the game.The kids don't need that kind of junk. Besides, I wouldn't want you coming down and getting in my face at a game. I'm not as nice as that other guy was. You would have got a fist in your mouth. I didn't play football in school, I was on the Karate team and ran Varsity and JV track. (Cross country). Made it to State 3 years in a row. I try to control my temper better nowadays, since I asked Jesus in my life. Used to have a bad problem with it when I was riding prospect for the Hells Angels back in the 60's. Good thing I went into the Army for 20 years. It taught me discipline. I really do hope Buddy can pull it out next year, but I'll listen to the games on the radio. Don't want to waste the price of a ticket and have my wife tell me "let's go" at halftime. Maybe you can give Buddy some tips since you are an expert. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend.

[Ludwig]

... I was riding prospect for the Hells Angels back in the 60's. Good thing I went into the Army for 20 years...

This is Bandido County; we don't want no Hollywood Angels showing their "colors" here.

[sojourner truth]

I have Bandido friends. The club president has really cleaned the club up in past years. When I was drafted in '68, I had been riding with the club for about a year and a half. ( I wouldn't call them Holltwood Angels to their face, they have a tendency to resent it). I was drafted along with about 5 other members all at the same time. When I came back from Viet Nam, most of the guys I went to school with that were club members were either dead, in jail, or drugged out. My best friends' dad was killed by the club for ratting out a drug deal his son was involved with in 69. They killed his brother and sister in law the year after. I went down and reenlisted a week after I came home. That was the smartest thing I ever did in my life. PS, a prospect doesn't wear colors.

[onetime]

Sorry you don't think the Roos JV going 10-0 doesn't mean much to you..go tell those kids, coaches, and parents your opinion on that. I am sure they will all agree and appreciate your opinion..........Again, all of these years,..... when KHS has been soo successful, in 5A.... and 4A, they did it with those poor little kids from Rancier and Fairway, those terrible feeder schools, the ones you said were near the bottom of all the middle schools in KISD.

Rancier and the former Fairway were once the the gems of the district and not always bad schools, but they sure as hell are not now. Secondly I would have that conversation with coach Mc if I were Tom about just how bad the product is on the field. You can not tell me if the staffs were switched around from Killeen to Ellison that Ellison would at least be competitive while Killeen would..... well you know how that would go since Ellison at least over the last 6 years has at least one better athlete on the field then Killeen.

[Night Owl]

Humm....I wonder how kids are going to feel when they are losing.Hummmm..... Probably tickled to death and happy with the world...and their coaches, who they hear lambasted and blamed at every turn, right? I know several of the Ellison players..they are good kids, and had, for the most part, good attitudes about their team...but, you could tell that some people were giving them great reasons to fail. One kid said something to me about, "well, the coaches"...and I stopped him right there. I asked him, did he tell you guys to fumble three times the other night? Did he tell you to run a 5 rather than a 4.6 in the 40? Did he tell you to slip those tackles?..Did he teach you wrong?....The boy looked down, and said no...then we started talking about attitude, trying harder, and doing the best they could do, holding their heads up and knowing they were doing their very best...always. I guess I was wrong. I should have told them that it was all that stupid coaches fault, given them built in blame and a great excuse for them to use if they lost..... Roo, there is always new hope and enthusiasm when a new coach comes in..always. I've seen it several times, but, that lasts only so long. I hope Shoemaker has all kinds of success in the coming years, along with Ellison, and Harker Heights, and Killeen, all of them. Onetime, you have convinced me...you know more about football and athletics than I do. Since you are so smart, don't talk about the coach and badmouth him just here and to anyone that you can get to listen to you. Go talk to him..face to face...man to man. Don't just talk about him behind his back. Would you like that done to you? Go talk to him MAN to MAN...Would you do that? I can answer that..NO, you wouldn't and you won't. You will just keep talking, and talking, and talking to anyone that will listen,..except the coach himself. . ...Sorry you don't think the Roos JV going 10-0 doesn't mean much to you..go tell those kids, coaches, and parents your opinion on that. I am sure they will all agree and appreciate your opinion..........Again, all of these years,..... when KHS has been soo successful, in 5A.... and 4A, they did it with those poor little kids from Rancier and Fairway, those terrible feeder schools, the ones you said were near the bottom of all the middle schools in KISD. That is just unreal, isn't it?........... PS My offer for you to get good coaches for yourself in those contests I mentioned earlier is still on the table. Then we will have the games, the competitions..and...loser keeps quiet. Deal?

It seems in the 20 years as a coach you would have learned some people skills, but I guess those aren't important. I had a high school coach that sounded a lot like you do today. He wasn't a very good coach or role model for kids.

[sickofpc]

IYO?? NO,.. So sorry my people skills don't meet your expectations...you have ruined my day. I am just responding to someone I disagree with. You have sounded like a positive, congenial people oriented person so many times on this forum. :doh I certainly will take YOUR advice and wise counsel........Just a few thoughts....Every year people in Cove criticize Welch, who without a doubt has one of the best football programs in the state, whether you like him or not. He either doesn't go far enough in the playoffs or he doesn't win "the big one"..ummm .....That poor little soph that ran wild for the Roos, coming up from that not so good JV you alluded to, did pretty well against playoff competition, didn't he...hummm..which makes me think, why in the world didn't that old coach play him on the varsity all year...I AM BEING FACETIOUS ...there may have been a dozen reasons why Sam didn't bring him up earlier, but , he knows..and you and I don't. ......Finally, as far as what the kids think, I used to tell my son, who just happened to be a great athlete, himself, that I really didn't care what he thought...I cared about what he DID...and yes, I told several of my players the same thing. I still feel that way.......st, I am certainly glad you didn't go to the games and badmouth, backstab the coaches, proud of you for that...and, fyi, I wouldn't have come down and gotten in your face in public, like my mother did. If I was going to say something to you, it would have been in private, between me and you........but, just have to ask..are you that tough?..what you said sounded like a threat..humm...you must be a bad, tough guy................and lastly, about the talent level, onetime(which is probably appropo), since you are so all-knowing, answer me this....how many players off of Ellison's offense could have started for Killeen and HH?..Don't give me a runaround answer , tell me simply...how many could have started for the Roos or Knights?.... I would never discuss something like that around kids, but since we are adults here..tell me....finally, since you are so into coaching, get yourself a peewee football team, or baseball team, and let me know when you are going to play. I will come and criticize every single thing you or your team does...and , please, please ...Don't lose...........or, would you just appreciate fans that came and supported. encouraged, and cheered you and your team?

[Night Owl]

You fail to understand I don't have expectations for you, so you haven't met or failed in those.

I have never claimed to be a coach as you have. If you spent that much time around other people's children with your people skills I am surprised that you lasted 20 years. I have read what you say you have said to kids and I am appalled. You are susposed to be the adult. Key word is suspossed. Wondering........if you are coaching in the PL in Killeen. I seem to recall a PL coach being described in another thread that might be you or at least someone very like you.

I am positive and congenial, at least I am until someone starts acting like a jerk and then I kindly point it out to them. Now if you want to get down into the mud slinging I am also more than happy wallerin' in the mud also. Thats called being multi-talented.

If you and other coaches don't want to be critized I would suggest a different line of work.

[sojourner truth]

IYO?? NO,.. So sorry my people skills don't meet your expectations...you have ruined my day. I am just responding to someone I disagree with. You have sounded like a positive, congenial people oriented person so many times on this forum. :doh I certainly will take YOUR advice and wise counsel........Just a few thoughts....Every year people in Cove criticize Welch, who without a doubt has one of the best football programs in the state, whether you like him or not. He either doesn't go far enough in the playoffs or he doesn't win "the big one"..ummm .....That poor little soph that ran wild for the Roos, coming up from that not so good JV you alluded to, did pretty well against playoff competition, didn't he...hummm..which makes me think, why in the world didn't that old coach play him on the varsity all year...I AM BEING FACETIOUS ...there may have been a dozen reasons why Sam didn't bring him up earlier, but , he knows..and you and I don't. ......Finally, as far as what the kids think, I used to tell my son, who just happened to be a great athlete, himself, that I really didn't care what he thought...I cared about what he DID...and yes, I told several of my players the same thing. I still feel that way.......st, I am certainly glad you didn't go to the games and badmouth, backstab the coaches, proud of you for that...and, fyi, I wouldn't have come down and gotten in your face in public, like my mother did. If I was going to say something to you, it would have been in private, between me and you........but, just have to ask..are you that tough?..what you said sounded like a threat..humm...you must be a bad, tough guy................and lastly, about the talent level, onetime(which is probably appropo), since you are so all-knowing, answer me this....how many players off of Ellison's offense could have started for Killeen and HH?..Don't give me a runaround answer , tell me simply...how many could have started for the Roos or Knights?.... I would never discuss something like that around kids, but since we are adults here..tell me....finally, since you are so into coaching, get yourself a peewee football team, or baseball team, and let me know when you are going to play. I will come and criticize every single thing you or your team does...and , please, please ...Don't lose...........or, would you just appreciate fans that came and supported. encouraged, and cheered you and your team?

Tough guy, nah, i'm a real sweetheart. I jsut don't take any crap off anybody either. And I don't make threats, or aversions about other peoples sexual orientation. Come on down and chat with me anytime. Just don't get stupid. OOps, too late.

[sickofpc]

I am "sussposed" to be the adult?...lol...I see. Just know that I really, really value your opinion. It means sooo much to me. BTW, what is the PL?... I am very sure that you are very comfortable, as you say, wallerin in the mud. I am sure you have been there often....which reminds me of what my grandad used to tell me about wasting your time trying to teach a pig to sing,.... just irritating the pig and getting yourself dirty.. ...FYI, I am a nice guy, also, until someone starts acting or talking like a jerk. I would love to have a battle of wits with you, Miss Congeniality, but, I hate to go against an unarmed opponent.

[sickofpc]

ST, you are funny...I have to give you that. HA HA. No doubt you are much tougher than I, much smarter, and know much more about coaching. I surrender to your intellect.....but, then...you said you were getting out of this conversation..humm....but, send me a pm as to where I can come down and chat , would love to have a conversation with you...and thanks for the invitation.

[onetime]

how many players off of Ellison's offense could have started for Killeen and HH?..Don't give me a runaround answer , tell me simply...how many could have started for the Roos or Knights?.... I would never discuss something like that around kids

I think the better question would be how many kids from Ellison would have started over the kids at Killeen there Freshman years. After you answer that one then I think you would go on to say well what the hell happened to all of those starters from Ellison that were freshman, were they ran off, did they quit, are they playing other sports? It is not as simple as looking on the field an saying that team sucks and they need to fire there staff. If you are familiar with football in the area you will remember that Lampasas played in a very tough district and managed to go from an 0-10 team to a playoff team with the addition of a new coach. Now as you alluded to earlier when kids get a new coach in this type of situation they are often encouraged to play harder for this new coach, but Lamp has played really really well lately and here they are still making it in the playoffs. A few years ago they battled the then 2nd place Kangaroos all the way down to the last minutes of the 4th quarter. With 3A numbers, what is the point? The point is that if Lampasas can compete in that district with smaller numbers then how is that Ellison struggles greatly competing in a considerably weaker district top to bottom.

That district had Lake Travis, Killeen, Pfl Hendrickson, Hutto, Marble Falls, Dripping Springs, and Lampasas
Ellison's District Cove, A&M Consol, (Who else is remotely a perennial playoff team after that?) Bryan (down now that they have a new school) Temple? Belton? Shoemaker? Heights? 3 of the teams in the district have been once I think in the last 4 or 5 years.

Lastly and the point you are missing time in and time out, the games are not even close
Killeen vs Ellison 28-14 (4a School)
Cedar Park vs Ellison 52-0 (4A School, they should not even schedule that one)
Waco vs Ellison 21-10 (4a School)
Bryan vs Ellison 56-7 (that poor coach was let go at the end of the season {2-5 district record, guess who the other win was
A&M vs Ellison 49-0
Cove vs Ellison 64-7
Heights vs Ellison 37-7
Belton vs Ellison 37-0
Temple vs Ellison 20-12
Shoemaker vs Ellison 32-24 (20 or 30 game losing streak snapped)

Outscored 296-81

Average ball game
29-8

Take out the 4a schools and perennial losers and you
213-33

Average of 30-4

The bryan coach has been in the playoffs the last two seasons and was let go, beat Ellison with ease and your arguing this point. No one said fire him, but evaluate the situation.

[onetime]

By the way most of those games were over early into the second half of the ball game or end of the second quarter, guess what coaches do in those situations PC? That's right, they put the twos and threes in the game, some teams even bring up J.V. kids to give them a look rather then beat up the starters they need for those playoff runs. Just imagine what those games would have been had the starters of Bryan, Cove, Cedar Park, Heights, Belton, and Consol remained in the game.

[sojourner truth]

ST, you are funny...I have to give you that. HA HA. No doubt you are much tougher than I, much smarter, and know much more about coaching. I surrender to your intellect.....but, then...you said you were getting out of this conversation..humm....but, send me a pm as to where I can come down and chat , would love to have a conversation with you...and thanks for the invitation.

Gee sicko, that is a threat if ever i heard one. Sure glad I love Jesus or I'd be real tempted. But I don't go looking for trouble any more. I'v spent enough time in jail for whippin' up on loudmouths in my lifetime. Course, I don't run from trouble either. Hey, I never claimed to know anything about coaching. All I know is that the team's gone to pot ever since he's been at the helm. Don't take no genius to see that. Doesn't take a coach either. But you just keep truckin' on fella. Looks like you're right and the rest of the world is wrong. Glad you enjoy my humor, seems like you need something to put a little joy in your life.

[sickofpc]

What threat, ST? My statement in no way, shape, or form was a threat....lol...I honestly would have loved to come talk with you, since, ... you did invite me, didn't you? "Come on down and chat with me, anytime"...Did you not mean what you said?...I'm glad you mended your ways and found Jesus. The way you have talked about how you would have hit me in the mouth, and whipped so many people, been put in jail, and run with a motorcycle gang? Crap, I don't even have a tatoo. Not one. You sound waaay too tough for me, anyway....and, thanks, but, I have plenty of joy in my life, I always have. I've been very lucky. Somehow I missed the gang and the jail time, but, I have had a pretty happy life, thanks. I just try to mind my own business, try not to hurt intelligent, caring people...and take care of my family and business.... I don't think I am right and the whole world is wrong. I think a whole lot of the world thinks like me. They don't like coaches in the stands and backstabbers that are always talking, cutting, criticizing...from the pee wee games to the high school varsity. They are just not mouthing about it all the time.......Maybe I am wrong, ..know I was wrong, one time...in 2003. ...Onetime, all of your stats are impressive, glad you put in all of that time and work trying to make your point.....BUT, you never answered my questions, did you?...and you and I both know you won't. I also know you would NEVER go talk with the coach at Ellison. If you have enough guts to talk about him behind his back, have enough guts to go talk to him face to face, but, again, we know that isn't going to happen. ....You will just talk behind his back, every chance you get.... Maybe it is time for a change, ...that might very well happen. I know that the AD is a political animal, the same as the Supt, the board, the administration, and a lot of teachers, ....and if enough "experts" gripe and complain, well......I hate that it is like that..but, it is. Sooo, if enough stink is raised, there is probably a good chance that the Ellison coach will lose his job. He might well resign before then, he can certainly get another job easily enough. ...Then, you can be sooo proud of yourself...and I'm sure Ellison will look like the Robert Walker teams of the early 90 s from now on. (you might even apply for an assistant's job at EHS, if there is a coaching change. I know that the new coach, if there is one, would be excited about having you)

[sojourner truth]

What threat, ST? My statement in no way, shape, or form was a threat....lol...I honestly would have loved to come talk with you, since, ... you did invite me, didn't you? "Come on down and chat with me, anytime"...Did you not mean what you said?...I'm glad you mended your ways and found Jesus. The way you have talked about how you would have hit me in the mouth, and whipped so many people, been put in jail, and run with a motorcycle gang? Crap, I don't even have a tatoo. Not one. You sound waaay too tough for me, anyway....and, thanks, but, I have plenty of joy in my life, I always have. I've been very lucky. Somehow I missed the gang and the jail time, but, I have had a pretty happy life, thanks. I just try to mind my own business, try not to hurt intelligent, caring people...and take care of my family and business.... I don't think I am right and the whole world is wrong. I think a whole lot of the world thinks like me. They don't like coaches in the stands and backstabbers that are always talking, cutting, criticizing...from the pee wee games to the high school varsity. They are just not mouthing about it all the time.......Maybe I am wrong, ..know I was wrong, one time...in 2003. ...Onetime, all of your stats are impressive, glad you put in all of that time and work trying to make your point.....BUT, you never answered my questions, did you?...and you and I both know you won't. I also know you would NEVER go talk with the coach at Ellison. If you have enough guts to talk about him behind his back, have enough guts to go talk to him face to face, but, again, we know that isn't going to happen. ....You will just talk behind his back, every chance you get.... Maybe it is time for a change, ...that might very well happen. I know that the AD is a political animal, the same as the Supt, the board, the administration, and a lot of teachers, ....and if enough "experts" gripe and complain, well......I hate that it is like that..but, it is. Sooo, if enough stink is raised, there is probably a good chance that the Ellison coach will lose his job. He might well resign before then, he can certainly get another job easily enough. ...Then, you can be sooo proud of yourself...and I'm sure Ellison will look like the Robert Walker teams of the early 90 s from now on. (you might even apply for an assistant's job at EHS, if there is a coaching change. I know that the new coach, if there is one, would be excited about having you)
You know, in all my years of dealing with people, I don't believe I've ever a more obtuse individual than you. Don't you get it? Take a look at all the posts directed at you. Everyone's trying to tell you something and you just don't get it. Keep it up, you're giving a lot of people a good laugh.

[Iteachtoo]

Excuse me, Mr. know it all. Just what middle school do you think Brandon Smith, Jonathon Rush, and Juaquin Iglesias came from, oh yes, that would be Rancier. Sorry, now you are talking about MY kiddos!!

[RooDawg]

2-8 in 2009, 3-7 in 2010, 5-5 in 2011...overall 10-20 (.333 winning pct)...

5-5 in 2008, 4-6 in 2009, 4-6 in 2010, 0-10 in 2011...overall 13-27 (.325 winning pct)...

The first set of numbers are from Coach Mullins first three years at Harker Heights...the second set of numbers are Coach McBryde's first four years at Ellison...Why isn't there people talking about Coach Mullins getting looked at? Coach McBryde had won more games during his first three years than Coach Mullins...McBryde had one 0-10 season and everyone is getting fired up...a coaching change should get the kids more fired up and if it is a good coach should be able to instill a program that IMPROVES...Coach Mullins and the Knights have improved their record each year...Coach McBryde and the Eagles have not improved each year...Could this be the reason that more fans are upset with Coach McBryde than with Coach Mullins?

I will say this...i do believe that the eagles had less talent on the field this year than they have had during McBryde's tenure and Coach Mullins had probably his best talent since he has been at Heights...

I will also note this...look at the middle school football teams in the past several years...what schools has the middle school championship team feed in to? most of the championship teams in the past have fed in to heights (union grove)...and then before that it was ellison (liberty hill)...

I also know that the kids that we get at Killeen high are WAY behind in football...but give us a year...give us a year to get the kids acclimated to football and working out and the results are immensely different with those same kids...you can look at killeen's freshmen teams the last several years and will notice that they win maybe one or two games a year...but after that they are involved in a jv district championship...that's a result of being pushed by coaches at killeen high to get better

[onetime]

Excuse me, Mr. know it all. Just what middle school do you think Brandon Smith, Jonathon Rush, and Juaquin Iglesias came from, oh yes, that would be Rancier. Sorry, now you are talking about MY kiddos!!

Iteach, it isn't the Juaquin Iglesias that help you win state and go to the playoffs. It is the no name kids that have been in your program for 3 and 4 years that start and don't play at any college. My point was on average you get more of those kids from the "other" middle schools than you do from Rancier, here lately. The Rush's help you win some games, but it is all of the other pieces around him that help you win alot of games. Look at any successful college program, everyone that starts on those teams are not going to the NFL, you have your 1 or 2 superstars and 5 to 6 stars and the rest of the kids are role players that fulfill a need. If you want to go deeper into the conversation, think about the kids that go to Union Grove and the kids that go to Rancier, what is the socioeconomic background of both groups? Iteach I believe you work at RMS so you can probably tell us first hand, how often do kids fail off the team at Rancier? When those kids go to Killeen do you think it is a benefit to hear that the kid or kids struggle in the classroom and receive little support at home. I wish we could find someone on here that coaches at all schools, I guarantee that the majority of the kids that come from Rancier are the same kids whose parents are seldom seen at games or functions for their kids. I bet you could here that there are alot of parents that you have never seen in the four year period that the kid attended the school. So with that said if your getting 40 of those kids from rancier, while Ellison gets 70 kids from schools with a higher amount of well rounded kids then I think your opportunity for success is much greater. Education and sports are one in the same, the kids that have the resources to excel usually have a better shot, the kids with parental involvement in their activity have a better shot. I could go on and on.

[onetime]

I also know that the kids that we get at Killeen high are WAY behind in football...but give us a year...give us a year to get the kids acclimated to football and working out and the results are immensely different with those same kids...you can look at killeen's freshmen teams the last several years and will notice that they win maybe one or two games a year...but after that they are involved in a jv district championship...that's a result of being pushed by coaches at killeen high to get better

Excellent point, imagine if Killeen got those kids from Union Grove, how much more successful would the school be? Also to your other point Roo, I think the point made about Killeen's feeder schools provides proof of what can occur with a motivated staff. I would bet that Ellison's feeder schools beat Killeen's feeder schools and that Ellison's 9th grade teams beat KHS 9th grade teams. So what happens to the kids at Ellison after their freshman year? Do they move away? Basketball? Track? P.E.? Something happens it is odd to go from winning to losing so fast in such a short period of time. Say what you want about the last coach they had, but at least they were competitive.

[sickofpc]

I just didn't realize I was dealing with such football experts...but, yet, you don't answer one direct question I ask, you wont address one single thing I have said directly. Humm. ST, you ignore what I said about your invitation, your saying you were getting out of the conversation, my compliments to you, but that's ok..I understand you, believe me when I say I do... ....Onetime, you never answered one question or addressed one thing I said to you...not one.....Dawg, I get it...the Killeen coaches, led by Sam(don't get me wrong, I think Sam and his staff do a great job), take little or no talent, coming from those terrible feeder schools, as onetime says, and make great, championship players out of them. No other coaches in the district try to do that, I don't guess, and your comment about the freshmen to the JV...ummm...it just isn't like that and not that simple...... I wonder if all of those quality kids that jumped ship to HH, from KHS, when HH opened,had anything to do with HHs early success? Probably not, right?.... As far as the EHS freshmen disappearing, they don't. They are still there,in majority. BUT, if you have ever coached, which you haven't, you know that where kids are placed, what level they play on, changes year to year....and, onetime, why has Rancier changed from being a great feeder school to such a poor feeder school?...also,onetime,give me two backs that are 180-190, 4.4s, and you take 6 backs that are 150 and 5.2s...give me three or four athletic. 240 or 250 linemen, and you take 8 or 9 linemen that are 180 or 195, and not very athletic. Then, let's play. ...Just numbers doesn't mean much, numbers and talent, does..I know talking to you is like talking to a bowling ball....but, my points are, and always have been...success on the field is always a combination of talent, coaching, and the ability to have a certain amount of control to put a program in place,.... that loudmouths that criticize the coaches, usually don't know what they are talking about, love to get attention by acting like they are experts, yet don't have enough courage to talk man to man with the coach they are criticizing, have never ever coached, and were never great athletes...A couple of you are soo defensive, don't know when something is said tongue in cheek, and are so convinced you know more than anyone, even tho you have never been there, done that...but, that's ok...I defer to your knowledge of something you really know very, very little about.

[xzochye]

It's amazing what can happen to a thread when you are gone for a couple of days. I wish I could get the smilies on my phone cause I really need the yawning one right now!

You 3 need to take y'alls arguments to pm. It's obvious you guys are never going to agree. Your not even debating anymore, just agrueing.

[Night Owl]

What threat, ST? My statement in no way, shape, or form was a threat....lol...I honestly would have loved to come talk with you, since, ... you did invite me, didn't you? "Come on down and chat with me, anytime"...Did you not mean what you said?...I'm glad you mended your ways and found Jesus. The way you have talked about how you would have hit me in the mouth, and whipped so many people, been put in jail, and run with a motorcycle gang? Crap, I don't even have a tatoo. Not one. You sound waaay too tough for me, anyway....and, thanks, but, I have plenty of joy in my life, I always have. I've been very lucky. Somehow I missed the gang and the jail time, but, I have had a pretty happy life, thanks. I just try to mind my own business, try not to hurt intelligent, caring people...and take care of my family and business.... I don't think I am right and the whole world is wrong. I think a whole lot of the world thinks like me. They don't like coaches in the stands and backstabbers that are always talking, cutting, criticizing...from the pee wee games to the high school varsity. They are just not mouthing about it all the time.......Maybe I am wrong, ..know I was wrong, one time...in 2003. ...Onetime, all of your stats are impressive, glad you put in all of that time and work trying to make your point.....BUT, you never answered my questions, did you?...and you and I both know you won't. I also know you would NEVER go talk with the coach at Ellison. If you have enough guts to talk about him behind his back, have enough guts to go talk to him face to face, but, again, we know that isn't going to happen. ....You will just talk behind his back, every chance you get.... Maybe it is time for a change, ...that might very well happen. I know that the AD is a political animal, the same as the Supt, the board, the administration, and a lot of teachers, ....and if enough "experts" gripe and complain, well......I hate that it is like that..but, it is. Sooo, if enough stink is raised, there is probably a good chance that the Ellison coach will lose his job. He might well resign before then, he can certainly get another job easily enough. ...Then, you can be sooo proud of yourself...and I'm sure Ellison will look like the Robert Walker teams of the early 90 s from now on. (you might even apply for an assistant's job at EHS, if there is a coaching change. I know that the new coach, if there is one, would be excited about having you)

WARNING!!!!! WARNING!!!! Adult talking, NOT!!!!!!

[sickofpc]

N O, you are a real wiener, ..whiner, ...uh, I mean winner. ....I know, I know...I'm "sussposed" to be a better speller..lol.......Just how good of a golfer are you, Mr. KIA...?? (POI,...don't shoot before you aim)

[just2cents]

I wonder how much of my tax money goes to allow kids to play games. You go to school for an education, why is the KISD allowed to tax me and I never had kids in KISD, just so games can be played?